27 replies to this topic

[md02geist]

Seriously guys.

One of the biggest things about Otakon that bothered me this year (and this was my first year, so I have no idea if it occurs at others though I"m sure it does..) is twofold, and has to do with behavior in the Artist's Alley and the Vendors.


First off, in Artist's Alley: don't stop and talk in a huge group in front of an artist's booth. I'm there to see their art, and to talk to them, get some commissions done, etc. I'm not there to listen to you and your friends make various pop culture references while blocking all access to an artist's table. I'm sure they don't appreciate you impeding their business, but maybe they're just too nice to tell you. I'm not -- please, if you're not admiring art / buying art / talking to an artist, then clear the way and allow those of us who are there for something other than chitchat to do what we need to do. I get that discussions will be had, and that's totally cool -- just do it in the right places. Same applies for the Vendors. If you're not there to do business / browse the wares / talk to the store employees, MOVE ON.


Second off, please by all means WATCH WHERE YOU GO. I lost track of the number of times that if I hadn't been paying attention, I would've stonewalled somebody because they were barreling through a crowd at full speed and would've ended up with my shoulder in their face. You're excited because it's Otakon, you're rushing to get to a vendor praying they have that last figurine left, you're amped up on Red Bull or something, I get it. But you don't plow through the mall and run into all sorts of people, do you? Just because this is Otakon doesn't mean common decency and not injuring people can go out the door. Watch where you go, and if you have to move with a little haste to get somewhere then do so -- but don't go full out sprint shouldering aside anyone you see between you and your goal, you could easily injure someone or break that figurine or whatever that they've been after for months. And you don't want me to chase you down in a fight tech suit do you?


And finally..what NOT to do in a fire drill. I'm talking to one person in particular -- I think he may have been staff, but he may not have been, I'm not sure. Either way I reported it to several staff members. You, older bald guy with the glasses who looks like he hits the gym -- when a fire alarm goes off, you do NOT go running through the artist's alley screaming "FIRE ALARM GET OUT GET OUT GO NOW FIRE ALARM!" You can cause a stampede that way and cause people to be suffocated or run over. If you doubt that it can happen, please do some google work and you will see it is extremely possible, particularly when you have very limited exits (as in the case of Otakon) for the number of people that were present. To that guy -- you know who you are and if I'd had a second to pull you aside before you sprinted through the rest of the crowd screaming, we'd have some words. You quite literally could have killed people with your inane behavior.


This has been a public safety briefing by everyone's favorite bad anime character, Geist. Thanks.

Edited by md02geist, 07 August 2010 - 12:21 PM.

[evaunit01berserk]

This needed its own topic that badly? Really?

[tsimduckahs]

Oh, for when the fire alarm went off, there are exits in the back of the gaming room, but the staff still wanted everyone to go through the main entrance. wtf. Isn't they why you have exit signs at all exits, so during an emergency it can be easily found? I guess there could be stuff they didn't want stolen or something back there but still.

[md02geist]

This needed its own topic that badly? Really?

As badly, if not more so, then "I've got the post con sniffles," "I'm looking for this girl I met," and "I don't like buttscratcher calls." Really. (Not mocking those posters of course.)


@tsimduckahs: Precisely. It's both ridiculous and illegal to not allow emergency exits to function as such in an emergency situation. To be told "Sorry can't go out this way, go out the main entrance" during a fire alarm is unreal.

Edited by md02geist, 07 August 2010 - 04:25 PM.

[bobn64]

During an evacuation, all persons should leave via the closest available exit. We'll be working to address issues such as the ones tsimduckahs and md02geist encountered as we begin to plan for Otakon 2011. Please post or email us (via our website contact page) any other instances that you felt were mis-handled during the evacuation so we can be sure they are addressed.

[md02geist]

During an evacuation, all persons should leave via the closest available exit. We'll be working to address issues such as the ones tsimduckahs and md02geist encountered as we begin to plan for Otakon 2011. Please post or email us (via our website contact page) any other instances that you felt were mis-handled during the evacuation so we can be sure they are addressed.

Excellent, thank you for the update.

[KyoKyo]

Sounds like you had a bad experience in the Artists Alley.....It took a good 10 minutes for people in the Dealer's Room to even realize the alarm went off. I was buying a Soul Eater wallscroll when the dealer said "is the BCC burning down? oh well. Thanks and have a good weekend!"

The atmosphere in the dealer's room was almost sleepy lol

[MonkeyMel1003]

Had there been an actual fire and they were not allowing people to use every available exit there could have been many legal issues. With the guy screaming down Artist Alley that definitely could have caused legal issues. People could have been injured if everyone was rushing like a nutcase to get out of there. Even in an actual fire you have to stay calm or it could cause a lot of problems including the injury or death of someone.

[izurusuke]

I know I may be the only one not in the loop, but was the fire alarm actually a prank, did someone think they saw a fire, or was there actually a grease fire like some people have said?

As for me, I was out getting food at the time, which worked out rather well but I heard from some of my friends that it was a bit of concerning experience that they didn't go out the emergency exits...

[md02geist]

Sounds like you had a bad experience in the Artists Alley.....It took a good 10 minutes for people in the Dealer's Room to even realize the alarm went off. I was buying a Soul Eater wallscroll when the dealer said "is the BCC burning down? oh well. Thanks and have a good weekend!"

The atmosphere in the dealer's room was almost sleepy lol

Haha too funny

[alabaster]

I know I may be the only one not in the loop, but was the fire alarm actually a prank, did someone think they saw a fire, or was there actually a grease fire like some people have said?

As for me, I was out getting food at the time, which worked out rather well but I heard from some of my friends that it was a bit of concerning experience that they didn't go out the emergency exits...

Why do people persist in passing along rumors when an official answer has been given repeatedly (and starting immediately on return to the BCC)?

Some idiot pulled the alarm, and investigators are looking into footage that may have captured someone in the act.

[md02geist]

I know I may be the only one not in the loop, but was the fire alarm actually a prank, did someone think they saw a fire, or was there actually a grease fire like some people have said?

As for me, I was out getting food at the time, which worked out rather well but I heard from some of my friends that it was a bit of concerning experience that they didn't go out the emergency exits...

Why do people persist in passing along rumors when an official answer has been given repeatedly (and starting immediately on return to the BCC)?

Some idiot pulled the alarm, and investigators are looking into footage that may have captured someone in the act.

He's not passing along rumors, he's just saying what his friends told him but asking what the TRUTH is.

However, the answer:
http://www.otakon.co...icle.asp?id=557

Hopefully the dbag gets caught. Would be great to have him foot the bill for that. You guys have NO idea how expensive fire department response is.

Edited by md02geist, 08 August 2010 - 12:12 PM.

[Daniel Perales]

I know I may be the only one not in the loop, but was the fire alarm actually a prank, did someone think they saw a fire, or was there actually a grease fire like some people have said?

As for me, I was out getting food at the time, which worked out rather well but I heard from some of my friends that it was a bit of concerning experience that they didn't go out the emergency exits...

Why do people persist in passing along rumors when an official answer has been given repeatedly (and starting immediately on return to the BCC)?

I guess people just don't want to think that it was a prank. Or the ones who were responsible just want to keep that rumor going only to divert the actual fact.

Some idiot pulled the alarm, and investigators are looking into footage that may have captured someone in the act.

I hope they do catch the idiot(s) who did this. I can only imagine how this whole thing could have gotten very ugly at an instant. People could have gotten hurt or killed because of this.

[OtakonOtaku]

People Never watch where they are going ._. I leraned a lot about blocking in Karate class, so I actuly use forms of that at conventions. because people don't look. if someone isn't paying attention and they are getting too close I actully touch them of if they were going too fast I do use block to guard myself XD it's never hurt anyone but it gets theor attention and they they look all bewildered

I have to agree with AA. too many people just holding a convo. in the dealers room too. I just wanted to say to them GTFO if you aren't looking to buy something don't stand in the way of people who are

however as for the fire drill I have to say that the door I was at oh! I forget the name >_< the side door UNDER the skywalk going to
Sheraton where the spiral stairs are. that door was handled nicely by staff of both Otakon and BCC.

The only issue I had was getting back in because everyone was pushing forward and I was getting hurt. I'm only 5"2' so everyone was talker than me so it was really fursutrating not haveing my feet on the ground ._.; so People need to have a bit more respect for the fact everyone needs to have their badge checked on the way in a door there were only a few staffers so just WAIT YOUR TURN :<

I'm not sure if this will have much reason to go with the fire procedure or not but could we stop people from sitting across the whole stairs??
I was on my way to a number of photoshoots on the 4th floor and on my way up the stairs behind starbucks and some of the back side stairs people block the whole stairwell by sitting there! it was really pissing me off. most of all the people blocking the side stair didn't even bother to move when I came to use the stairs > some people were LAYING across the section I had to step over them! The one behind starbucks at one point I had to go under the rail to go down because not one section was free of people sitting side-by-side

I kinda hope that some how staff will address this. it seems like a minor issue but the thing is not one person I saw was considerate enough to move
I'm not saying people should be banned from sitting in the stairs . Just that they should be forced to move over when blocking the way for people who need to use them

[md02geist]

People Never watch where they are going ._. I leraned a lot about blocking in Karate class, so I actuly use forms of that at conventions. because people don't look. if someone isn't paying attention and they are getting too close I actully touch them of if they were going too fast I do use block to guard myself XD it's never hurt anyone but it gets theor attention and they they look all bewildered

I have to agree with AA. too many people just holding a convo. in the dealers room too. I just wanted to say to them GTFO if you aren't looking to buy something don't stand in the way of people who are

however as for the fire drill I have to say that the door I was at oh! I forget the name >_< the side door UNDER the skywalk going to
Sheraton where the spiral stairs are. that door was handled nicely by staff of both Otakon and BCC.

The only issue I had was getting back in because everyone was pushing forward and I was getting hurt. I'm only 5"2' so everyone was talker than me so it was really fursutrating not haveing my feet on the ground ._.; so People need to have a bit more respect for the fact everyone needs to have their badge checked on the way in a door there were only a few staffers so just WAIT YOUR TURN :<

I'm not sure if this will have much reason to go with the fire procedure or not but could we stop people from sitting across the whole stairs??
I was on my way to a number of photoshoots on the 4th floor and on my way up the stairs behind starbucks and some of the back side stairs people block the whole stairwell by sitting there! it was really pissing me off. most of all the people blocking the side stair didn't even bother to move when I came to use the stairs > some people were LAYING across the section I had to step over them! The one behind starbucks at one point I had to go under the rail to go down because not one section was free of people sitting side-by-side

I kinda hope that some how staff will address this. it seems like a minor issue but the thing is not one person I saw was considerate enough to move
I'm not saying people should be banned from sitting in the stairs . Just that they should be forced to move over when blocking the way for people who need to use them

True that. There are tons of places to sit down and rest, I'm not sure why so many people chose the stairs particularly blocking entire sections of it.

[Adv1sor]

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related this?

[Cousinsue]

Oh, for when the fire alarm went off, there are exits in the back of the gaming room, but the staff still wanted everyone to go through the main entrance. wtf. Isn't they why you have exit signs at all exits, so during an emergency it can be easily found? I guess there could be stuff they didn't want stolen or something back there but still.

Those exits lead to a rabbit warren. We'd never be able to make sure everyone had left if we let people go that way.

And so far as I know there was no Public Safety in that area to ensure that people would leave.

In the past, having worked a lot of fire alarms and drills in multiple places (including a dorm called Fire Hall because of people who ahd been burnt to death in it) I've seen people hiding in closets, bathrooms, stair wells, all sorts of places to avoid having to go out. And since we're responsible for you all...to the BCC and to you, we chose to do the clear in this fashion.

[x_dae dreamer]

The only thing that annoyed me about this fire drill is people yelling out Marco polo. Like really? I think i remember a staff member was trying to tell us to go across the street from the BCC but how can we hear them when some one is yelling out stuff like that?

[Zacloud]

The only thing that annoyed me about this fire drill is people yelling out Marco polo. Like really? I think i remember a staff member was trying to tell us to go across the street from the BCC but how can we hear them when some one is yelling out stuff like that?

You're right, if they were indeed yelling that out during instructions, that's bad.

But, if they were already doing it and didn't know instructions were being shouted out, they most likely were just trying to keep spirits up. Helping keep the crowd and themselves calm instead of panicking. Continuing to have fun in the face of disappointment, frustration, tension, and uncertainty.

I personally found that helped me feel better during the evacuation, along with the folks who waved at passing cars, and cheered when they honked in response. Or the guy passing out ad-fans, or the Anon holding up the sign "Con closed due to AIDs".

All that helped the evacuation be less scary, and instead showed the resilience of congoers, the unity that can continue even when structure is taken away. It helped remind me that Otakon-folks can be optimistic and patient, making the best out of the situation, instead of only being pissed at missing their panel, or panicking when things were actually fairly well under control.

Yes, I still acknowledge that they should have kept instructions in mind. But instructions were being repeated enough that I always heard what I needed to. So at least it fortunately it turned out ok.

--

To contribute to concerns about how it was handled, however: We were told over those bullhorns to get across the street. Some staff were telling us to use the crosswalks, but others were yelling at everyone to just GO GO GO, while there was VEHICULAR TRAFFIC on the move. Now THAT was BAD.

There were police cars nearby at that point. They should have blocked the vehicle traffic to allow us to cross, if it was that important. Or, the staff should have kept it to crosswalk flow, or directed folks to go down a block down the sidewalk and spread some of the crowd to the next crosswalk over. Or something.

Bottom Line: Having THAT many people forced out of very few entrances (I read the above, so I understand why that decision was made), made for a huge thick pool (unavoidable), and with only one direction to go, the street/traffic conditions need to be taken into account (that's what needs work).

[alabaster]

The "con closed due to AIDS" stuff is SO far from funny. Try watching a good friend waste away over a year and die from it, and then tell me where the lulz come from there.

[Technowraith]

The "con closed due to AIDS" stuff is SO far from funny. Try watching a good friend waste away over a year and die from it, and then tell me where the lulz come from there.

I was actually impressed with the evacuation and how well it went. Herding 29,000 people out of the Convention center in under 15 minutes is no small task in itself.

However...

Baltimore was not prepared to have 29,000 Otaku spilling onto it's streets.

As for evacuating, I ended up exiting out the Sharp street lobby, below the pedestrian overpass that spans Sharp Street. problem is, the sidewalks are narrow at that exit. So once everyone got outside, there was no where for us to go quickly. Staffers were yelling at us to move away from building AND stay out of the street. But when you have 1500 people crammed outside the sharp street lobby, there is no place for us to go very quickly. And why on earth would they only permit exit through ONE set of doors? Are you crazy? There are multiple doors there for a reason. To push the masses out through only one set of doors is dangerous. I went to open a second door and was immediately yelled at by a staffer to use the single door. WTF? In a mass evacuation you use ALL available exits, not a single set of doors. Had this been a real fire with a REAL need to exit the building faster, I wouldn't have listened to that staffer yelling at me to use a single door. I'll open another door to allow for safer exit.

For next time, just see that staffers make it a little safer to exit by allowing use of more than ONE set of doors. I'm sure it will make their life a little easier.

On the flip side, I want to also state how well the re-entry was handled. Despite hiccups and communication issues in finding all the vendors and artists, i think the staff did an excellent job at averting the stampede that resulted from a rumor that swept the crowd. I was a bit frightened when everyone surged forward toward the doors, but I held my ground and waited. Turns out the additional wait was only about 10 minutes and it wasn't a bother.

Hopefully otakon won't go through this again next year. But if it does, hopefully the things we learned from this year will help result in better evacuation plans for the future.

[Daniel Perales]

The "con closed due to AIDS" stuff is SO far from funny. Try watching a good friend waste away over a year and die from it, and then tell me where the lulz come from there.

My younger brother died from it. My family still feel the pain after all these years.

I can never understand how people can find life threatining sicknesses and suffering so humorous.

[KSweeley]

The "con closed due to AIDS" stuff is SO far from funny. Try watching a good friend waste away over a year and die from it, and then tell me where the lulz come from there.

My younger brother died from it. My family still feel the pain after all these years.

I can never understand how people can find life threatining sicknesses and suffering so humorous.

I also agree, it's quite sickening that someone made a joke regarding AIDS... Truly truly awful.

[Zacloud]

The "con closed due to AIDS" stuff is SO far from funny. Try watching a good friend waste away over a year and die from it, and then tell me where the lulz come from there.

My younger brother died from it. My family still feel the pain after all these years.

I can never understand how people can find life threatining sicknesses and suffering so humorous.

I also agree, it's quite sickening that someone made a joke regarding AIDS... Truly truly awful.

I'm sorry for the losses several have suffered, and understand that it would seem trivializing for the cause to be joked about.

If you notice enough other humor though, it's not usually so much about the subject, as it is about the absurdity of it. Such as those who laugh at racist jokes but aren't racists themselves; they laugh because the subject is absurd. Stereotypes are dumb, hence funny.

And the "due to AIDs" thing originated from "Pool's closed", and as we all know closing a pool for that particular reason would be absurd. People don't laugh at it because they think a fatal disease is funny, they do so because it was originally a mixture of a catch-phrase and an absurd reason. And that sign was a parody of it, as an in-joke to those who visit the board and are familiar with the flavor of said joke.

I know that won't make it seem any less harmless to some people. Everyone deals with things in their own ways. I'm just saying that people USUALLY don't make that kind of joke with the intention of hurting those who've been hurt by the disease, even if it can have that effect.

--

Back on topic: Now that I think about it, the multiple door use would indeed have both pros and cons, but while I still understand why they chose to release through only a few... I WOULD have preferred in hindsight they allow all doors used. I say that as long as it can be proven that the staff did all they could within reason to ensure that everyone got out when told to... if someone chooses on their own will to stay in, hide, and burn to a crisp, it's their own damn fault.

I know, they don't want even idiots to burn up... but then with forcing everyone out one way, you instead get innocent people possibly being trampled or suffocated. As I'd said, it was VERY fortunate that only a few people panicked. That can't be guaranteed every time. It's just a testament to the resiliency and level-headedness of Otakon members. But a stampede would still be possible, and forcing one thick directional crowd is what can lead to that.

By letting more exits in more directions be used, it'd make a sparser crowd, with more avenues and directions to disperse, making it less likely for trampling and pommeling. Just an issue to keep in mind. That's why it's a crime to pull an alarm like the idiot did: Fire is dangerous, but so is a large-scale evacuation. When there's no fire, the evacuation becomes the most dangerous event. Especially on this scale.

If this still can't be acted on in the future, I understand, but it needs to at least be kept in mind.

[izurusuke]

I know I may be the only one not in the loop, but was the fire alarm actually a prank, did someone think they saw a fire, or was there actually a grease fire like some people have said?

As for me, I was out getting food at the time, which worked out rather well but I heard from some of my friends that it was a bit of concerning experience that they didn't go out the emergency exits...

Why do people persist in passing along rumors when an official answer has been given repeatedly (and starting immediately on return to the BCC)?

Some idiot pulled the alarm, and investigators are looking into footage that may have captured someone in the act.

I was asking for clarification- there's no need to accuse me of passing on rumors. I knew that it was a false alarm since they let us back into the building but I didn't know if it was a prank alarm or if someone had seen smoke, seen something out of the ordinary in the kitchen- whatever-I wanted to know if there was a chance that someone pulled the alarm for a justifiable reason or in good faith.

I love Otakon, I appreciate the hard work that goes into it, and I can't wait to go next year but, as this incident and the evacuation shows, Otakon needs to work on communication and organization. It's gotten extraordinarily better with the big screens, online updates etc. but I think this is an area Otakon should focus on for next year.

[KyoKyo]

I know I may be the only one not in the loop, but was the fire alarm actually a prank, did someone think they saw a fire, or was there actually a grease fire like some people have said?

As for me, I was out getting food at the time, which worked out rather well but I heard from some of my friends that it was a bit of concerning experience that they didn't go out the emergency exits...

Why do people persist in passing along rumors when an official answer has been given repeatedly (and starting immediately on return to the BCC)?

Some idiot pulled the alarm, and investigators are looking into footage that may have captured someone in the act.

I was asking for clarification- there's no need to accuse me of passing on rumors. I knew that it was a false alarm since they let us back into the building but I didn't know if it was a prank alarm or if someone had seen smoke, seen something out of the ordinary in the kitchen- whatever-I wanted to know if there was a chance that someone pulled the alarm for a justifiable reason or in good faith.

I love Otakon, I appreciate the hard work that goes into it, and I can't wait to go next year but, as this incident and the evacuation shows, Otakon needs to work on communication and organization. It's gotten extraordinarily better with the big screens, online updates etc. but I think this is an area Otakon should focus on for next year.

Considering the chaotic nature of a 30,000 man fire evacuation,I thought Otakon staff did a nice job. Some staffers early on had no idea it was a prank and were understandably serious. I couldn't imagine something like this happening at Anime expo....

[md02geist]

Oh, for when the fire alarm went off, there are exits in the back of the gaming room, but the staff still wanted everyone to go through the main entrance. wtf. Isn't they why you have exit signs at all exits, so during an emergency it can be easily found? I guess there could be stuff they didn't want stolen or something back there but still.

Those exits lead to a rabbit warren. We'd never be able to make sure everyone had left if we let people go that way.

And so far as I know there was no Public Safety in that area to ensure that people would leave.

In the past, having worked a lot of fire alarms and drills in multiple places (including a dorm called Fire Hall because of people who ahd been burnt to death in it) I've seen people hiding in closets, bathrooms, stair wells, all sorts of places to avoid having to go out. And since we're responsible for you all...to the BCC and to you, we chose to do the clear in this fashion.

While I'm not a Maryland/Baltimore fire marshal, I am familiar with fire safety and codes in my region. I agree that people tend to hide in places so they don't have to leave. However I'm fairly certain that it's against fire code, and thus law, to have clearly marked exits either blocked or not allowed as exits during an emergency situation (which is precisely what that fire alarm was at the time it went off, since nobody knew quite what was happening). I feel for you guys that it's a logistical nightmare, but having the exits blocked and/or staffers turning people away is not the answer.

I agree that MOST staffers tended to do a good job, but there are those certain staffers that seem to have a chip on their shoulder thinking that because they are wearing a nifty shirt and have a bullhorn, it's a license to be a total ass to people. I do not have any problem with being serious, particularly in a fire drill situation. What I do have a problem with is people screaming in my face to get across the street, as if I'm an idiot, while I'm just waiting for traffic to clear so I won't get hit.

I lost track of the number of anime fans I saw dash madly through traffic or right in front of trains "just because"...rest assured I won't be one of them, even in a fire drill situation. Avoiding a building fire won't do me an ounce of good if I get flattened by a minivan.

I'm still quite appalled at the man that decided to start yelling and screaming in artist alley, but he obviously will be a forever unknown. Just amazes me that someone obviously in their 30s or 40s can still be so naive.

At any rate, the evacuation was handled fairly well overall. But there is definitely some fine tuning that needs to be done, and there probably needs to be some sort of plan put in place for 2011 to react properly to such an occurence (should it happen again).


By the way, was the schmuck who pulled the alarm finally caught and dealt with? I'm pretty sure what he did is a felony.

Edited by md02geist, 10 October 2010 - 11:24 PM.

[zombiecha12]

I'm agree about some of those issues. This was my 4th Otakon and first con firedrill (this it what it's been dubbed in our house) I and my sister were in otachan and when the alarms went off
1.) We couldn'd hear them. three of the four dorrs to that area were closed as to mffle sound for the art contest or what ever went on that hour.
2.) saw the light and a staffer told us it was probably someone outside takeing photos.
3.) After hearing the alarm fianlly many people said "Should we leave?" the response: I'm not sure let me ask

I don't blame the staff at all. this was highly unexpected but I don't think it wise to say I don't know and the like when an actual emergency could be going on.