53 replies to this topic

[Sakae]

I think it be really epic for a live vocaloid concert. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of Vocaloid fans that go to Otakon (I saw SO many Miku cosplayers). So who agrees with me?

[Lady Starstorm]

That just happened at AnimeExpo last year. I wouldn't expect to see another event like that in the US until the English Miku software has come out - Then they might consider doing one as a 'push' marketing thing to get people interested in purchasing the software.

[SilverMiko]

I am not speaking for Guests Relations here since I don't staff in that section, but, what I do know from what I heard from an AX insider was that the vocaloid concert cost a LARGE amount of money to produce and AX was able to pull it off with sponsorship covering the cost and having the Nokia Theatre for a venue.

Taking off the staff hat here for a sec-

Though I have started to joke that if we ever did this, let's just do Sharon Apple.

(i kid i kid!)

::staff hat back on::

[Dostovei Illuminas]

I went to that concert and it was awesome but not as awesome as you might think due to the technical side of things; basically unless you happen to be sitting within the narrow cone of seats that are directly in front of the stage, you're not going to have the optimum viewing experience.

Also yeah, that concert was ridiculously sponsored. AX had to get a cash infusion from Toyota for crying out loud, along with whoever else sponsored it. I'm not saying I wouldn't love to see it at Otakon, because I would, but you're basically looking at having them sell their souls over to the corporate side to scrounge together enough money to make it actually happen. It's just not feasible for a convention like Otakon (i.e. a fan-run non-profit).

Edited by Dostovei Illuminas, 07 March 2012 - 08:12 PM.

[alabaster]

Well, the talk of "selling one's soul" is a bit over the top. But yeah -- hideously expensive, effectively impossible without significant outside cash, at least for us.

[Russael]

I went to that concert and it was awesome but not as awesome as you might think due to the technical side of things; basically unless you happen to be sitting within the narrow cone of seats that are directly in front of the stage, you're not going to have the optimum viewing experience.

Also yeah, that concert was ridiculously sponsored. AX had to get a cash infusion from Toyota for crying out loud, along with whoever else sponsored it. I'm not saying I wouldn't love to see it at Otakon, because I would, but you're basically looking at having them sell their souls over to the corporate side to scrounge together enough money to make it actually happen. It's just not feasible for a convention like Otakon (i.e. a fan-run non-profit).

I had an opportunity to see the latest Vocaloid concerts on March 8 and 9, and I think they corrected the field of view problem quite significantly by using 3 projectors spaced across the back of the glass screen on the Mikupa concert, and using 4 on the Giving Day concert. That should've significantly increased the viewable angle of the projection... but that system keeps getitng more and more complex. I can't imagine the technobabble behind getting that to work.

As far as the topic goes, I know Alabaster knows me as one of the more annoying ones from a couple years ago in 2010 when I asked for a vocaloid concert... and then AX ran with it. Had there been more time to plan, I would've went... and it looks like I might lose my opportunity to see it live even in Japan, since the concert was touted as being the 'final' Giving Day concert. I'm still holding on to a razor's edge of hope that there may be ONE MORE here in the states, especially once they finish Miku's english voice bank, however, I do not expect to see it at Otakon. I understand and respect the way they handle things, even though I'm disappointed. Otakon is the largest gathering of anime fans for the east coast and it'd be a great opportunity. If it happens, I'll be first in line. If not, then I'll go where it surfaces... and hopefully it will again.

I'd love to see Saki Fujita be a guest at Otakon since she supplied the voice samples for Miku... and I got to see how crazy she is in Working!! as an actor. I'd also like to see the guests that were invited after the AX concert (the producer, etc) make a return as well. For now, I'm settling for blu-ray copies of the concerts. I just wish they didn't cost 90 to 120 dollars to import. Bleh.

[Daniel Perales]

Maybe not Otakon, but I think the NYCC/AF would be the only other con that can possibly pull this off. But the logistics involved will be pretty daunting at the very least.

[Russael]

The director of the LA concert teased us a little about that last year - someone in the audience noticed a folder on his computer desktop that had NY MIKU on it, and they kind of had an 'oh sh*t' look on their face as they mumbled, "Uhh... errr... you're not supposed to see that." I asked the staff at NYCC about it and they said they'd like to do it, but it wasn't going to happen last year... didn't say anything about this year though. So, I'll keep my fingers crossed. Even they'd need a huge influx of sponsorship money to do it probably.

[The Eva Monkey]

Maybe not Otakon, but I think the NYCC/AF would be the only other con that can possibly pull this off. But the logistics involved will be pretty daunting at the very least.

I'm sorry, but I don't see NYCC putting that much time, more, or resources behind anything anime/manga/Japan-related. Their core audience just doesn't care enough to justify it.

[Daniel Perales]

Maybe not Otakon, but I think the NYCC/AF would be the only other con that can possibly pull this off. But the logistics involved will be pretty daunting at the very least.

I'm sorry, but I don't see NYCC putting that much time, more, or resources behind anything anime/manga/Japan-related. Their core audience just doesn't care enough to justify it.

You're probably right, but the huge lines that they had on both Vocaloids panels would have said, otherwise.

[SilverMiko]

Maybe not Otakon, but I think the NYCC/AF would be the only other con that can possibly pull this off. But the logistics involved will be pretty daunting at the very least.

I'm sorry, but I don't see NYCC putting that much time, more, or resources behind anything anime/manga/Japan-related. Their core audience just doesn't care enough to justify it.

NYCC is also basically slowly gearing away from anime track and more refocusing on mainstream comic/pop culture.

[Kyon]

I imagine throwing a Vocaloid concert would mean not having to invite any guests, and that would most certainly anger a crap load of people. Not to mention there would DEFINETLY have to be an attendance cap.

[Jaguar]

Good lord I would absolutely flip if I could see Miku again, Mikunopolis last year was amazing, but they did have some serious sponsorship from Toyota, heck, I even saw a billboard down in chinatown that had Miku on it. Still, I would absolutely love for Miku to come to Otakon.

[Russael]

Actually, doing a vocaloid concert would mean bringing a LOT of additional people, but most of which are more of a 'behind the scenes' kind of group. The technical crew is probably enormous, there's the band and all of their gear, plus the incredible amount of other hardware that would have to come along. Transporting a 20 - 30 foot wide glass screen can't be cheap (even if it is 3 sections - it's heavy), especially if it has to come via air. Also, a lot of songs include the creator of the song, so they would probably come along as well for their own personal numbers. When questioned about the duration of the AX concert since it was a bit shorter than the shows in Japan, the director had said, "Miku is VERY, VERY EXPENSIVE."

As far as an attendance cap goes... I suppose they could overcome that by offering 2 concerts. They did that with the last concert this month in Japan... 2 concerts on the 8th for Mikupa, 2 on the 9th for the Giving Day one. Of course they sold out in a matter of hours though. I also don't believe Otakon would charge for a better seat like AX did (and then wound up selling the entire venue in that manner), but that would offset a small chunk of the cost of bringing it here.

I'm pretty much resigned that it isn't coming to the U.S. again. They seem to stick with opportunities overseas though. They had one in Germany, and had a few others around the other landmass. Anime is still a very niche market, considering the population of the U.S. I don't believe it's enough to warrant bringing it back, even though it was overwhelmingly successful at AX.

[Kyon]

And only hardcore fans would know who those behind the scenes guys are. So if they did come to the con, it would be like hey, either you're a vocaloid fan or gtfo. Don't get me wrong. I don't hate Vocaloid. I actually like a few of them and the game Project Diva looks/seemed pretty catchy, but I'd rather have a variety of guests, musical, va and what not, then a sole focus on one group ya know? Especially since I don't really own any merchandise, and don't plan on buying any so I can just be like oh hey, if they're ever at a con I'm at by some chance I can have them sign this...

[Mechamaniac]

Though I have started to joke that if we ever did this, let's just do Sharon Apple.

That's what I'm talking about!!

[youjik33]

Sharon Apple is the reason I will never trust Vocaloids XD

[cutekarla]

I think what would be better and more affordable is a) Vocalekt Visions concert or a nicofarre-ish event with Vocaloid producers. Basically Vocalekt Visions is a fan-run collaboration between two overseas vocaloid producers who set up their own projection concerts with project diva and mmd models (both used with permission.)

Tempo-P and NeutrinoP started Vocalekt Visions in 2011. Since then, Vocalekt Visions started spreading their network to join in team members from all around the world. Together with partners, Vocalekt Visions have gone to different conventions to show Hatsune Miku the software, giving public speeches and hosting live DJ performances using their original Vocaloid/Hatsune Miku music, AniMiku animations and cosplay team. [from the AOD website]

Here is their website.

As for nicofarre, it is a kind of event that the site nico nico douga likes to throw to promote certain nico nico users and their works. There have been some nicofarres for jazz music, electronic music, dancing, utaites (I will try to sing, amateur popular singers) and others. So maybe we can gather up a couple of Vocaloid producers instead to throw an event like this. Also, DANCEROID, they dance to a load of Vocaloid songs!

Yeah, like people said before, I bet AX took a load of time and resources to plan this and they already had Toyota in their grasp, so a full pledged SEGA or 5bp concert might be very difficult to achieve for now. I think if you get any kind of Vocaloid producers to collaborate on some musical performance together, people will be satisfied.

[Sozuke]

I bet they would be able to handle if it was small enough I would love to see a vocaloid concert in person instead of in front of a screen. I think it could also show what technological concepts are possible and what could be the future of concert peformances

[Dostovei Illuminas]

The problem with a Vocaloid concert is that there's no such thing as "small." Even one of the special screens that's needed for the stage is like, several feet across. That means tons of shipping and handling cost. Not to mention the fact that one screen by itself wouldn't even be enough room for her to move around hardly, and only the people looking dead on straight at her would be able to even see her clearly. And then there's all the technical people that need to set up the projectors and whatever else. And that's not even counting the live performers who do the actual music aside from Miku's singing, unless you just want canned stuff for that.

Seeing Miku "live" means shelling out tons of money, no way around it. Half-assing it would just lead to a huge disappointment all around, and I don't think anybody wants that.

[GasparAKAShiggitay]

I'd assume the One Mariner Arena venue wouldn't be sufficient for such a concert/event, correct? I've only been there once, so I don't know how big it is from memory..... Anyone can and may correct me either way.

Though if Otakon could snag Miku-Ohime-sama I'd pay almost anything to get in. xD

Edited by GasparAKAShiggitay, 27 June 2012 - 09:51 AM.

[Fadamor]

OK, I'm officially confused. How does a Vocaloid perform "live"? I'm just dabbling in V3 right now and I can't picture how a Vocaloid like IA would ever give a live performance.

[Dostovei Illuminas]

They use a projector and a special screen to project a life suze "hologram" onto the stage. It isn't an actual 3-D image but it's a very convincing optical illusion.

Do a YouTube search for Hatsune Miku World is Mine Live and you'll see how it looks.

[youth]

I'd assume the One Mariner Arena venue wouldn't be sufficient for such a concert/event, correct? I've only been there once, so I don't know how big it is from memory..... Anyone can and may correct me either way.

Though if Otakon could snag Miku-Ohime-sama I'd pay almost anything to get in. xD

The field of view for the 3d illusion is pretty limited though (unless they improved the tech since Mikunopolis) so alot of seats to the side would be left empty, but the arena could probably accomodate a bigger audience then the Nokia Theater.

[Fadamor]

Ahh. Then it's like the movie "S1m0ne" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0258153/

[Otaku Ru]

For what it's worth, the actual live performance is pretty underwhelming. I have a few friends that went who really enjoy the Vocaloid scene, and they said it's not really all it's cracked up to be. When you boil it down, it's just a live band with pre-recorded vocals and an elaborate projection of an animated character. In fact, "elaborate" might be taking it a bit too far. ToraCon up in Rochester, NY (about an hour away from where I live) did an AniMiku event and it was pretty much the same thing as Mikunopolis, but held in a much smaller venue.

[Daniel Perales]

At the recent AnimeNEXT con, one of the guest was Toshihiro Fukuoka, who produced and directed "Mikunopolis", had two panels (both were very well attended), did a little mini Miku show using a scaled down version of the screen.

It was pretty interesting to say the least.

He also said that he will (or may, if I heard right), going to be at NYCC, and give us some more Miku.

[OtakonOtaku]

I don't want a concert. I'd rather see guests , the people who created the Vocaloids (there's a number of companies ) and official content related to it, and the games.

[Dostovei Illuminas]

Yeah, I'd really like to meet Saki Fujita, she's the source of Miku's voice.

[Otaku Ru]

A Yamaha industry booth would be pretty awesome...

[youth]

I don't want a concert. I'd rather see guests , the people who created the Vocaloids (there's a number of companies ) and official content related to it, and the games.

I'd want both. That's what was great about the AX 2011 is that they brought over a couple of producers & the also the head guy in charge of Vocaloid at Yamaha (surprise guest at panel), & Crypton Future Media.

Edited by youth, 30 June 2012 - 10:40 PM.

[Fadamor]

Meh, Miku is SOOO "last decade"! IA is the future!

[Dostovei Illuminas]

Iowa?

[Fadamor]

IA is a Vocaloid released last January. Lia provided the vocal source material (she sang the opening to "Angel Beats!" and "Air")

I guess her full name is "IA -Aria on the Planetes-"

http://1stplace.co.jp/vocaloid/

Edited by Fadamor, 02 July 2012 - 06:07 AM.

[Dostovei Illuminas]

Ahh, I see.

[Fadamor]

Shouldn't the question in your sig be, "Do you even know where Mecca is?"

[Dostovei Illuminas]

Probably. I copied it from a bash.org submission though, so that's its original form.

[Fadamor]

Seems like a "gotcha" type of question. I believe the Japanese spell the robotic anime version メカ (meka). We usually use mecha, but JtotheD throws in the city - either on purpose or because he's an ignorant speller (we'd need to see more of the conversation to figure out which.) If the discussion was about anime to start with, the Loopy1 was in his rights to assume Jto is just spelling-challenged. If the discussion was regarding Islam or Muslims , then Loopy1 is as dumb as he appears to be.

[libraof4swords]

This topic appears to be going in a random direction.

[Fadamor]

True enough. My bad. Stopping now.

[Fadamor]

Back on topic. Just found a video on YouTube of a Miku concert in Tokyo. The similarity to the premise of the movie "S1m0ne" is amazing!



The main difference between the Miku concert and S1m0ne concerts, of course, is the fans at the Miku concert KNOW she's computer generated and they're STILL going insane!

[rotinoma]

An important thing that distinguishes Miku's live shows versus just throwing a hologram up on a stage is that there's a live band in those shows. Let's not forget that.

There is probably a fairly large demand to see other vocaloid mascots perform on stage these days. The Crypton V2s are in all the big shows and we've all seen them. I guess eventually we will get to...?

[Fadamor]

That video I linked implies a huge entourage involved with getting Hatsune Miku to sing on stage. Besides the four band members, you've got the sound, computer, and projection technicians, the roadies involved with the stage setup and breakdown, and the advance team that has to determine if the venue is suitable (nobody wants to be viewing the show at an extreme angle to the glass). That would be a sizable chunk of change to pay for them to come. I wonder if Otakon could talk Japan Expo into covering some of the cost. They already are pushing Japanese anime as part of their culture:

http://www.japantoda...-expo-in-france

[eralston]

That video I linked implies a huge entourage involved with getting Hatsune Miku to sing on stage. Besides the four band members, you've got the sound, computer, and projection technicians, the roadies involved with the stage setup and breakdown, and the advance team that has to determine if the venue is suitable (nobody wants to be viewing the show at an extreme angle to the glass). That would be a sizable chunk of change to pay for them to come. I wonder if Otakon could talk Japan Expo into covering some of the cost. They already are pushing Japanese anime as part of their culture:

http://www.japantoda...-expo-in-france

Why would Japan Expo cover some of Otakon's costs when they are starting up their own US convention in 2013?

[youth]

Why would Japan Expo cover some of Otakon's costs when they are starting up their own US convention in 2013?

One situation I could see would be splitting costs by having the guests do more then one sponsoring con. I could see this working for something like a Vocaloid concert if the con's are physically far apart enough & relatively close in dates.

[Fadamor]

Also, the whole purpose of Japan Expo is to promote Japanese culture. Conventions are just part of it. If the show is already in the States, then adding one more concert date will not be that difficult. A downside is that Otakon seems to enjoy scheduling on the same week as AX (or maybe it's vice versa). That's bound to cause scheduling conflicts.

[mitamaking]

For what it is worth Nekocon(November 2-4 Hampton, Virginia) just announced a miku and vocaloid concert so it is unlikely Otakon will be getting voaloid anytime soon.

[alabaster]

Just to clarify: we have, I believe, ONLY been the same weekend as Expo *once* -- in 1999. We are typically 2-6 weeks away. I think the closest was 17 july and the longest was 23 august. These days we have "dibs" on our preferred weekends pretty consistently (last week of july or first week of August).

SDCC, however, is often no more than a week away from us and sometimes overlaps.

[alabaster]

For what it is worth Nekocon(November 2-4 Hampton, Virginia) just announced a miku and vocaloid concert so it is unlikely Otakon will be getting voaloid anytime soon.

I am very curious as to how they put that together, honestly, given what I either know directly or have deduced about the costs of putting on their show. I suspect it will NOT be the same sort of concert event that AX had. Or perhaps some of the requirements have changed; if they're not doing the holo stuff or not doing a live backing band, that might explain it...

[eralston]

For what it is worth Nekocon(November 2-4 Hampton, Virginia) just announced a miku and vocaloid concert so it is unlikely Otakon will be getting voaloid anytime soon.

I am very curious as to how they put that together, honestly, given what I either know directly or have deduced about the costs of putting on their show. I suspect it will NOT be the same sort of concert event that AX had. Or perhaps some of the requirements have changed; if they're not doing the holo stuff or not doing a live backing band, that might explain it...

I would guess it is a Vocalekt Visions presentation. They go to a lot of California conventions and do mini-vocaloid concerts as a panel and will be doing a full concert at PMX (they've approached other conventions about full concerts). I've not had a chance to look through their licenses to fully understand what they do/do not have permission to do but I've talked with high ranking PMX staffers who assured me that they do have permission to put on the concert.

"Vocalekt Visions is the largest and most active VOCALOID production team in the west, and we are the only licensed VOCALOID producers in the world with a live concert! Using an idea similar to SEGA's 39's Giving Day series concerts, Vocalekt Visions produces original music and animations to bring you a unique Hatsune Miku stage performance!"

I don't know what the performance entails but it could be they only have permission to use the character and the performances will entirely exist of original songs. I will be attending PMX which should answer some of the questions about the type of performance that they can/will put on.

Edited by eralston, 11 September 2012 - 05:58 PM.