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Otakon Rave 2008(suggestions only see 2007 post 4 comments)


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I love how I have so many people volunteering to be my personal protection at the rave! I might have to take you all up on that 'cause if I make friends with cool kids like all of you, I'll have nothing to worry about when I hit the dance floor!

That being said, on the topic of music....not a fan of rap or hip-hop....at all. Personally I think j-pop and j-rock style beats would be much better to dance to and generally more pleasing because while people might have their differences when it comes to their music preferences, we'll all be at Otakon for our love of Japanese culture in all aspects so it makes more sense to me to have Japanese or at least Japanese-influenced tuneage.

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There IS such a thing as Japanese hip hop and house artists. And there are plenty of them that could fit the feel of a rave better than j-pop or j-rock. For me, pretty much all music falls under two categories: listening music and dancing music. Then there's the overlap. Practically all rock falls under the former to me. Anything I can dance to I'll listen to, but not everything I listen to I'll dance to.

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There IS such a thing as Japanese hip hop and house artists. And there are plenty of them that could fit the feel of a rave better than j-pop or j-rock. For me, pretty much all music falls under two categories: listening music and dancing music. Then there's the overlap. Practically all rock falls under the former to me. Anything I can dance to I'll listen to, but not everything I listen to I'll dance to.
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There IS such a thing as Japanese hip hop and house artists. And there are plenty of them that could fit the feel of a rave better than j-pop or j-rock. For me, pretty much all music falls under two categories: listening music and dancing music. Then there's the overlap. Practically all rock falls under the former to me. Anything I can dance to I'll listen to, but not everything I listen to I'll dance to.

I usually don't like modern rap/hiphop, but Japanese rap I must admit is amazing. And also quite hilarious. Same goes for Italian rap.

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I just think that since it's a Japanese convention then it should have Japanese music. I mean....Thats kindof the point of going there....For me of course...^______^

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suggestion: get the guy who did the visuals at the katsukon rave. or at least someone who can do the same. all he did was look up funny youtube vids and animated gifs. simple, but it was oh so entertaining
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If that's what they're doing at a rave they have no business being there anyway. That's not how you dance to rave music.

This guy is right. I have been to every rave that has happened ever and seen people kicked out for killing the vibe by dancing awkwardly.

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If that's what they're doing at a rave they have no business being there anyway. That's not how you dance to rave music.

This guy is right. I have been to every rave that has happened ever and seen people kicked out for killing the vibe by dancing awkwardly.

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If that's what they're doing at a rave they have no business being there anyway. That's not how you dance to rave music.

This guy is right. I have been to every rave that has happened ever and seen people kicked out for killing the vibe by dancing awkwardly.

discrimination on how someone dances....at a rave.... :wub:

Right dude, I was obviously being facetious. And forgive me for maybe being new here, but why must we constantly be reminded "TOPIC PLEASE"? This is quite relevant to the topic.

The thread is about suggestions for improving the dance for the 08 con. The recent posts haven't been about how to improve the dance.

Now please get back on topic.

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Opinions about how to improve the con rave fit quite well into the topic. Just because they're not outright suggestions doesnt mean it doesn't help to give ideas, instead it strengthens other suggestions to prove there's a number of people who'd like the same thing, which is sort of the point here. Of these conversations we've already found/agreed upon several things that would be good for the rave. Is that not progress?

@ the people talking about dancing. I didn't mean it like that, geeze. If you read what the person I was replying to was talking about/their problem you'd understand why I was looking down upon it.

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Topic, please.

This thread asks you to make suggestions to the Otakon Dance department's staff so that they can improve the quality of the dance - discussions of how other people dance, and arguing amongst yourselves, are not on topic.

If you have a problem with another user's comments here on the BBS, please contact a member of the BBS Moderator or Admin team. If you have suggestions as to how we can make the rave better, we're happy to hear them!

Otherwise, if the thread can't stay on topic, I will lock it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest Blak Majik

I honestly think that not much improvement is needed for the rave. As far as the staff goes, it is well organized. The problems seem to be between con-goers, complaints of the smells, and disagreements on the music genres played.

To address personal problems, such as complaints about breaking in peoples immediate proximity, throwing objects, the use of glowsticks on strings, and other complaints about peoples proximity to one another. The solution in my mind is to just ask the people who you have a problem with to stop preventing you from enjoying yourself.... or simply move away from the immediate area. It is an issue of courtesy at that point, and if the behavior continues or begins to bother a significant number of people, then the staff should step in and warn people that they will be ejected if they continue. The staff is there to make sure everyone has the ability to have a good time, thats all.

Problems Between Con-goers

If people are kissing and keeping to themselves, you can't stop them untill the line is crossed. Just don't watch, or walk away. If people are stripping down and groping eachother publicly, then they need to be told to stop. No different from most nightclubs with the same atmosphere.

If people are breaking, inevitably a crowd will form around them. That just what always happens, anywhere and everywhere. If the crowd wants to get close enough to get hit, it's on the person that got hit. Don't stand so close... BUT... When a single individual clearly has no control of their body and begins to kill the vibe by nearly hitting people over and over, that is a problem, as fights could break out. Staff should speak to them.

On the flip side of that point, I am a b-boy as well. I know I speak for the rest of the experienced b-boys with this point...

To all the other b-boys, we all should know never to FORCE a circle on a crowd of party goers. If you didn't know that and you're reading this... now you know. As we always do at this rave, find an open space, and have fun. It's YOUR responsibility to know what moves you CAN pull off in a limited amount of space. If you are just flailing around in a cypher (aka: circle), and falling into people then you'll loose the respect of the other dancers, and we'll probably just ask you to stop. In such cases, you make ALL freestyle dancers look bad, as this thread has shown us.

In the end, don't be afraid to ask somone to stop bothering you if they continue to do so. If somone dosn't know they're doing something offensive, how can you expect them to know when to stop?

Smells

As is was stated before my post, nothing can be done about the smell of hundrends of sweaty people dancing. That's something you just have to expect when you go out to any place with a dance/party atmosphere and a concentration of people in a single space. If you don't like the smell, it's not as bad in the hallway, so you can hang out there and dance in the rave at your leisure.

Music

First of all, I am a local DJ and I would be willing to volunteer my services for the event, if given at least 2 weeks notice of a decision before the event. I spin predominantly Old School Hip-hop, Funk, House (soulful, deep, tribal, & hard), Breakbeats, and Baltimore club. I'm currently working on 2 new demos and if so desired I can provide links to download them as they are finished.

Ultimately, the music played is up to the DJs selected by the staff based on feedback from everyone here. Heres a tip for party goers: If people are on the dance floor and it stays packed, the DJ knows they are enjoying it. That is called reading the crowd. If the DJ changes the track and the dance floor dies down, then they know to go back to a track similar to the one that was playing when the dance floor is packed. Simple concept really.

If you want to make the best of the DJs presence, let them know what you want to hear BEFORE they start mixing. Better yet ask them if they would play songs from a CD that you provide them before they start mixing (preferably recorded in high quality... bitrate of 192 or higher). I understand the desire to have more japanese music played, and if selected to DJ, I'm open to that. Get me a few songs you want to hear, and I'll defiantely try to put them into a playlist, provided that they work with the vibe of the party.

Hint: House, Baltimore Club, Techno, Trance, Jungle, and many other electronic forms of music can be mixed very easily together by a mildly decent DJ.

If anyone would like to add me to the DJ line-up, let me know and I'll get to work.

Edited by Blak Majik
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I'm not going to comment on breaking because you're dead on; personal responsibility is key. Some contrary thoughts, though -

Music

First of all, I am a local DJ and I would be willing to volunteer my services for the event, if given at least 2 weeks notice of a decision before the event. I spin predominantly Old School Hip-hop, Funk, House (soulful, deep, tribal, & hard), Breakbeats, and Baltimore club. I'm currently working on 2 new demos and if so desired I can provide links to download them as they are finished.

This kind of gig is a privilege, not a favor you do for Otakon unless you're up on the headliner level and missing out on a serious paycheck by playing a free event. A lot of well-known local djs would LOVE to be so humble as to 'offer their services' at last second notice for an opening slot at this gig. Putting out criteria to be booked without directly contacting the talent booker, in conjunction with not knowing that the submission date for demos is well past, shows that you're probably not very aware of how getting booked for this gig works. I mean absolutely no offense by this whatsoever, I hope that doesn't sound too harsh.

Ultimately, the music played is up to the DJs selected by the staff based on feedback from everyone here. Heres a tip for party goers: If people are on the dance floor and it stays packed, the DJ knows they are enjoying it. That is called reading the crowd. If the DJ changes the track and the dance floor dies down, then they know to go back to a track similar to the one that was playing when the dance floor is packed. Simple concept really.

Reading a crowd well is infinitely more complex than this. This kind of thinking is how some people getting stuck playing anthem tracks or a single subgenre back-to-back and losing their momentum. A track that doesn't work 10 minutes into your set could be a perfect change-up halfway through. Knowing the initial energy of the crowd, the time of day and the daily habits of congoers, who's going on before you and what they play, what's allowed and not allowed in the venue, the full structure of each track you play and tons of other info is crucial for these big room gigs.

Er... and to get back on topic: More artsy stuff throughout the room besides visuals at the front. Cryogenics and lasers might not be in the budget, but with enough creativity I'm sure something can be thought up. Maybe a large centerpiece in the dancefloor, like a giant (glowing?) tentacle or something?

If you want to make the best of the DJs presence, let them know what you want to hear BEFORE they start mixing. Better yet ask them if they would play songs from a CD that you provide them before they start mixing (preferably recorded in high quality... bitrate of 192 or higher). I understand the desire to have more japanese music played, and if selected to DJ, I'm open to that. Get me a few songs you want to hear, and I'll defiantely try to put them into a playlist, provided that they work with the vibe of the party.

Spot on about the bitrate, but unlike hip hop a lot of edm djs get don't take requests. Providing a cd at the show is a terrible idea as it doesn't give them a chance to memorize the song in it's entirety before they go on to play. Hitting them up a week or two before the show with requests is a much better way to get something you love played, but if you're going to make requests be sure to do your homework first and find out if the dj even plays that kind of music. Giving trance to a dnb/jungle dj will not get your song played. You'd be much better off with a trance, tribal or progressive house dj for that sort of thing. Not a lot of people can get into genre-hopping like that.

Hint: House, Baltimore Club, Techno, Trance, Jungle, and many other electronic forms of music can be mixed very easily together by a mildly decent DJ.

Not true at all in terms of fluidity. Funky house and funky breaks? Sure -- But there's typically a ~50 bpm difference between house and dnb (depending on how hard the dj likes to ride the pitch for their genre). Given that most turntables and cdjs only pitch up to 8-10% +/-, you can't just throw the 2 genres together that easily. And using the pitch control on newer models of cdjs when using the wide pitch option at something like 25% (or more) is just going to sound like butt as the cdj processes the signal -- and without the pitch control at that pitch you're working well towards the direction of chipmunk noises or low rumbles & crashes.

I'm sorry to blow up your spot like this, but when people come to edm events thinking these sorts of things it can lead to some serious letdowns when they don't get what they want, and this crowd deserves better than that; they're giving up a lot of money for an incredible, rare experience. I'll admit that different genres of music & culture cultivate different followings of mentality, but this is definitely not a crowd that's an exception.

I don't want to sound entirely negative here; It's great that you're getting on the board, looking for feedback, looking for requests and advertising yourself to the community. That's awesome. Very few of the performing djs take it to that level because their interest in the gig is that of a dj playing a gig, rather than that of a dj trying to get involved with a big project and a great community. Lots of respect to you for that, and again, I hope I'm not being offensive or sounding egotistical. Just trying to look out for the good of the community. :)

Edited by ZGL
Moderator edit: Added information from double post.
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For this rave, it probably will be my first rave ever. My suggestion just to make things comfortable, would handing people bars of deoderant (and floral deoderant for us ladies xD) shaped like the con mascots sound any good? I mean I've always been pretty shy and whenever i passed the rave floor, I would try to go in but chicken out at the last minute. However, it was not only cowardice that detered me, but it was the dreaded Ota-funk.

Uh...what else....How about a slow dance in between rounds of songs? I mean I've danced before but all i've ever heard was intense dancing that involved many things i shall not list here. But how about a slow dance or a waltz? I mean it would be a nice change of pace from dancing to music that goes Bum-chika-bum-chika-bum-chika-numanuma-bum-chika-bum-chika-numanumayai- and so forth. Nothing against the hard pounding bass and beats that make you just want to jump and dance, but that's just IMHO

uh...

do I even have anything else to add here? Uh....Free otakon Uchiwa fans for when ppl exit? lol ^_^

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I suggest that we don't try and tell DJ's what to play. I trust the DJ's to play dnb, trance, and house mixed with J pop or J trance like I heard last year. Just because something isn't produced in Japan doesn't mean it isn't fitting for an otaku rave, it can still have the right kind of sound for an anime inspired rave. I suggest we trust the DJ's and allow them to play whatever genres will have people moving.

Edited by Confero
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Someone at Katsucon played a mix of You Spin Me Right Round.. as far as breaking the monotony of trance/techno, hearing some classics set to bass beats or a complete remix of said classics would work quite well in my opinion.

Anywho, that;s up to the DJ, and I digress. My main concern is visual effects. Perhaps not leave it to the DJ? He/she's got enough on his plate by trying to read the crowd and such. If at all possible, try looking for a skilled video jockey to work with the DJ. And is there any chance we can get more tiles this year? Dancing on carpet sucks ;~;

A couple more decorations wouldn't hurt either.

And I know it's pretty much a NO at this point, but even setting up a table right outside the rave with just your basic rave needs; glowsticks, glowing toy things, whatever.. would make LOTS of money. You'd be surprised how many kids would actually pay $2 for a glowstick. I only say this because I don't see the harm in it and it'd be an easy way to make a bit of change.

EDIT: rahh. I just read Asrial's earlier post about a rave vendor table and well.. that sucks. lol

Edited by Otaku Ru
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Anywho, that;s up to the DJ, and I digress. My main concern is visual effects. Perhaps not leave it to the DJ? He/she's got enough on his plate by trying to read the crowd and such. If at all possible, try looking for a skilled video jockey to work with the DJ. And is there any chance we can get more tiles this year? Dancing on carpet sucks ;~;

This is a really awesome and feasable suggestion. There are a ton of pro VJs in the tri-state (and beyond) area that would be willing to do visuals for this event for free, and would be willing to bring their own equipment. I'm sure a quick google search for 'VJ Forum' would yield some popular discussion boards that Otakon could advertise a VJ slot on. I'm not 100% sure if this could be worked out in time for the '08 con, but it's definitely doable in '09.

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Vjs is an awesome idea ^^! I really hope you can work something out for this year, that way next year would be better due to more suggestions from what we see this year ^^.

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I think that since the rest of Otakon is pointedly catered towards asian culture. the rave and dance should be no exception. We should have DJs that play exclusively asian pop and remixes and the like, the use of a screen blaring anime would be a nice tinge too. I'm sure there is enough in the Japanese dance music pool to bring out authenticism and really satisfied con-goers.

The problem is that the more the otarave becomes like another U.S. Baltimore dance club, the more non-otaku we'll have registered just to crash the rave and the more otaku alienation we'll have during a weekend that's supposed to be anoverwhelmingly asian culture celebration.

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I think that since the rest of Otakon is pointedly catered towards asian culture. the rave and dance should be no exception. We should have DJs that play exclusively asian pop and remixes and the like, the use of a screen blaring anime would be a nice tinge too. I'm sure there is enough in the Japanese dance music pool to bring out authenticism and really satisfied con-goers.

The problem is that the more the otarave becomes like another U.S. Baltimore dance club, the more non-otaku we'll have registered just to crash the rave and the more otaku alienation we'll have during a weekend that's supposed to be anoverwhelmingly asian culture celebration.

I highly doubt that should be a concern. No one in their right mind would pay $50+ for a completely non-headliner lineup. Heck, most people wouldn't pay that much for several headliners unless they were on the top-tier Tiesto/Oakenfold/PvD/ATB level. $50 is a somewhat common fee for large festivals, and many of the DJs on the lineup play all over the place locally at places with a $0-10 cover. ^_^

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I think that since the rest of Otakon is pointedly catered towards asian culture. the rave and dance should be no exception. We should have DJs that play exclusively asian pop and remixes and the like, the use of a screen blaring anime would be a nice tinge too. I'm sure there is enough in the Japanese dance music pool to bring out authenticism and really satisfied con-goers.

The problem is that the more the otarave becomes like another U.S. Baltimore dance club, the more non-otaku we'll have registered just to crash the rave and the more otaku alienation we'll have during a weekend that's supposed to be anoverwhelmingly asian culture celebration.

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I, for one, fail to see how someone could be satisfied with an anime convention that does not leave the congoer immersed 100% in Asian culture throughout three days and two nights. As a matter of fact, why don't we boycott all the area diners and restaurants that aren't serving Japanese-style food?

Seriously, though, as somebody who has spent more than a few nights at clubs in Baltimore I can assure you that leaving out the J-rock will leave the Otakurave still a far cry from that atmosphere.

Edited by gnosis
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Guest Blak Majik

First let me say that I greatly appreciate you comments. I've been coming to Otakon since about 1996, so I understand your points, and I thank you for trying so hard to stay conversational, especially considering how easily so many people like to start flame wars online.

This kind of gig is a privilege, not a favor you do for Otakon unless you're up on the headliner level and missing out on a serious paycheck by playing a free event. A lot of well-known local djs would LOVE to be so humble as to 'offer their services' at last second notice for an opening slot at this gig. Putting out criteria to be booked without directly contacting the talent booker, in conjunction with not knowing that the submission date for demos is well past, shows that you're probably not very aware of how getting booked for this gig works. I mean absolutely no offense by this whatsoever, I hope that doesn't sound too harsh.
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No sweat! -And I appreciate & respect the well thought-out response. I feel you on the black hole of flame wars on the net, too.

I can definitely understand slipping into using over-encompassing terms, I do it as well sometimes. :lol:

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So long as the music isn't unbearably boring (and stuck in 1995) like it was at Katsucon (seriously, it was terrible), I'll be happy as a clam. Might I suggest Duck Missile's cover of Cocksparrer's "England Belongs to Me" for the Japanophiles, and perhaps some LCD Soundsystem or The Rapture to bring the party at least as current as 2006?

I mean, am I alone in thinking that dance music should have an actual tangible beat to it?

Also, if any Baltimore Club is played, might I respectfully request the remix of the Star Wars theme (nerdtastic) or "Pull Ya Guns Out" (North Ave. and Greenmountastic! Thanks, Ms. Tony!)

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So long as the music isn't unbearably boring (and stuck in 1995) like it was at Katsucon (seriously, it was terrible), I'll be happy as a clam. Might I suggest Duck Missile's cover of Cocksparrer's "England Belongs to Me" for the Japanophiles, and perhaps some LCD Soundsystem or The Rapture to bring the party at least as current as 2006?

I mean, am I alone in thinking that dance music should have an actual tangible beat to it?

Also, if any Baltimore Club is played, might I respectfully request the remix of the Star Wars theme (nerdtastic) or "Pull Ya Guns Out" (North Ave. and Greenmountastic! Thanks, Ms. Tony!)

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i don't know who was playing the club, breaks, and house tracks in the side room on saturday night, but please bring some of that out in the main room even if it's just for like 15-20 minutes. oh yeah, some b-more club would be nice, please ^_^. thanx.

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So long as the music isn't unbearably boring (and stuck in 1995) like it was at Katsucon (seriously, it was terrible), I'll be happy as a clam. Might I suggest Duck Missile's cover of Cocksparrer's "England Belongs to Me" for the Japanophiles, and perhaps some LCD Soundsystem or The Rapture to bring the party at least as current as 2006?

I mean, am I alone in thinking that dance music should have an actual tangible beat to it?

Also, if any Baltimore Club is played, might I respectfully request the remix of the Star Wars theme (nerdtastic) or "Pull Ya Guns Out" (North Ave. and Greenmountastic! Thanks, Ms. Tony!)

FakeRadish lady!! Hi xD

You know your beats pretty well. I agree with this, and as I said before, a break in the monotony of all the happy hardcore and trance and break beats would be WONDERFUL. A redundant bass beat with some flashy digitized sounds isn't the only thing that gets a crowd dancing, but I don't think the DJ's seem to realize that..

Edited by Confero
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What the heck is a "bass beat"? Do you mean that the producer added a sub kick over his individual drum hits in a song? Electronic dance music has so many genres and s too vast, that comment just makes no sense. Flashy digitized sounds? Is that a sample? What exactly do DJ's not realize, and could you do better?
Edited by Otaku Ru
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