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IDTDNDND45

4chan at Otakon

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IDTDNDND45    0

I just heard that more than likely 4chan will not get a panel at Otakon, so does anyone else who happens to frequent the site feel disappointed? It probably was on the top three list of things I was most looking forward to see at my first Otakon, but it also the one I am most confused about not happening. Gaia already has confirmed that they will be at Otakon, so how come an equally as important (and better community imo) is being not getting the "lets go".

Another than that, is there any events of 4chan members, regardless of what part of the forum you come from, planning on going to Otakon or possibly having some sort of event at Otakon?

In before Rules 1 & 2

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Due to activities of some 4chan members during last year's Otakon, Otakon's staff decided that it is in the convention's best interests to not have a 4chan panel at Otakon this year.

Unfortunately the actions of a few people forced us to make this decision, even though not all Otakon attendees who are interested or involved with 4chan were part of the problem.

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IDTDNDND45    0
Due to activities of some 4chan members during last year's Otakon, Otakon's staff decided that it is in the convention's best interests to not have a 4chan panel at Otakon this year.

Unfortunately the actions of a few people forced us to make this decision, even though not all Otakon attendees who are interested or involved with 4chan were part of the problem.

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i read the site, but i don't like them being at the convention. all it needs is a bunch of idiots that cant tell the difference between the internet and real life during a con and 4chan gets extremely annoying real quick. disappointed? nope, im about as happy when i heard they banned the paddles.

also another reason why gaia is still allowed is, you didn't have their members yelling nazi slogans in a circle and screaming F*** yeah

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Aresef    44

Panel or no panel, I think the people will still be there. Some of them will still be doing it wrong and losing the game.

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Champagon    0

i think the idiots that were paddling people without the persons consent are to blame for the 4chan panel ban

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IDTDNDND45    0
also another reason why gaia is still allowed is, you didn't have their members yelling nazi slogans in a circle and screaming F*** yeah

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Aresef    44
i think the idiots that were paddling people without the persons consent are to blame for the 4chan panel ban

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Just chiming in to offer my two cents--I was working in a vid room on the other side of the convention center, and I can't speak for the entire audience, but it was distracting that we could still hear the channers as far away as we were from them. I don't particularly care one way or the other about their presence, but I'd imagine they wouldn't have half as much trouble if they weren't so freakin' loud....

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Eddie 2    11

If I recall correctly, I remember after either last year or 2006 that several videos were posted on Youtube by 4chan members who claimed they "owned" Otakon or something of that nature (those vids have now be taken down, might I add). To a certain extend, it's dishearten that a small group of people ruin the fun for the larger group, but this always seems to be the case. To be quite frank, I don

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be prepared for a 4chan flood, 98 guests are looking at this thread. ^_^

moot announced the news along with a thread link.

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Aresef    44
be prepared for a 4chan flood, 98 guests are looking at this thread. ^_^

moot announced the news along with a thread link.

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~Ametatsu~    0
be prepared for a 4chan flood, 98 guests are looking at this thread. ^_^

moot announced the news along with a thread link.

"91 guests and 0 Anonymous users"

Shouldn't that be flipped?

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ChibiJosh    0
but it's not like it can be argued. and i'm sure otakon's more sensible members are happy about this, much like the paddles.

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ChibiJosh    0

They'll organize themselves since it's easy to spot who they are considering they always wear the Guye Fawkes masks. This time they won't have Moot entertaining them with a pretty power point presentation.

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~Ametatsu~    0
but it won't be as easy........as many people as there are at Otakon XD

Yeah, they only organized protests involving over 9000 people worldwide. Organizing a get-together at a convention center's way beyond their capabilities.

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AnnaNemyss    0
i'm laughing.....seriously, i am ^_^

no one said they couldn't set up a gathering. there's just no panel, which is a different kind of "gathering". however, what happens is completely up to them.....just hopefully they don't "take out their anger, how dare they!" and try to make a scene. it would be helpful if they realized why this had to happen, and matured a little

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Confero    0

I don't frequent 4chan and attended the panel last year. I wouldn't mind some sort of unofficial meet up though I'm not bummed that there won't be another panel. I highly doubt they will come and try to cause a raid, ruckus or beef with people. Most of the user base is very much not intimidating especially in an environment like Baltimore.

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omg I just don't understand this whole 4chan thing and I know nothing about it or why it's such a craze. I know it's some kind of internet cult thing like Gaia - but I went on the site once and it's only people posting pictures with really offensive and horrible comments. um, ok...

And from what I've seen and experienced, 4chan's offensive nature on the internet tends to translate into their behavior at cons. And weren't they the ones that taped "awesome" on the window ceiling of the BCC?

If someone would explain 4chan to me, what it is, and why it's a cult I would greatly appriciate it. I'm very curious but at the same time I won't miss them at this years con.

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bayp    0
4chan nerds will always be at cons. no panel != no 4chan presence.

True. I've already started to see threads where some members are planning on "boycotting" Otakon,

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Aresef    44
If someone would explain 4chan to me, what it is, and why it's a cult I would greatly appriciate it. I'm very curious but at the same time I won't miss them at this years con.

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pakopako    0
4chan nerds will always be at cons. no panel != no 4chan presence.

True. When 4chan had a panel ended last year (or the year before?) didn't they even continue the panel outside?

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rotinoma    2

4chan is like any other website people go see to entertain themselves. I think their panels at Otakon were just extensions of that. While I probably would agree with Otakon (I don't know the details like most here) about why their panel got canned I do think far majority of people who attended the panel in previous years are just normal individuals. It's still a pity how a few people ruined it for many.

And as said, 4chan people are for the most part normal people. You wouldn't be able to tell them apart from any other con goer.

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I for one am glad 4Chan will not be having a panel. That's one fewer nightmare for Otakon, SAFE, and the BCC to keep in check. If 4Chan has a problem with it, they can take it up with their users, because it's their riotous behavior time and time again that led to this.

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ahreshef    0
I for one am glad 4Chan will not be having a panel. That's one fewer nightmare for Otakon, SAFE, and the BCC to keep in check. If 4Chan has a problem with it, they can take it up with their users, because it's their riotous behavior time and time again that led to this.

Well said Aaron.

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JzzrAnime    0
I for one am glad 4Chan will not be having a panel. That's one fewer nightmare for Otakon, SAFE, and the BCC to keep in check. If 4Chan has a problem with it, they can take it up with their users, because it's their riotous behavior time and time again that led to this.

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But it was just the same as any other group of loud excited people at otakon.

Perhaps it is you guys that try to be too strict and let minor excitement annoy you

If they were just loud and excited, that would be one thing. By my count last year, it took something in the neck of 40 Otakon, BCC, and SAFE staffers to keep that one panel in order. That degree of human resources is better spent elsewhere. This is not a simple matter where someone has their thumb up their butt. I've been attending Otakon since 2000, and in the last eight years, NOTHING has compared to what I saw in that line. If you were in the line and were having fun, I can see how your objectivity to the situation could have been skewed.

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Riotous? I've been a fan of 4chan for years. And was looking forward to seeing the panel. But do to the horrible schedualing errors, I missed it. And I was close by. Yeah, I heard a loud group of excited people. But it was just the same as any other group of loud excited people at otakon. I've been attending otakon since it's been permamently in Baltimore.

Perhaps it is you guys that try to be too strict and let minor excitement annoy you, instead of just watching the group have fun as a whole, and dealing with single troublemakers.

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did you not see the youtube videos of the line or read what i said earlier?

It would certainly help, considering he's giving an opinion on something he didn't even witness.

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JzzrAnime    0
did you not see the youtube videos of the line or read what i said earlier?

It would certainly help, considering he's giving an opinion on something he didn't even witness.

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ahreshef    0
did you not see the youtube videos of the line or read what i said earlier?

It would certainly help, considering he's giving an opinion on something he didn't even witness.

I said I missed the panel. I heard / witnessed the line. Traveled under it too. As I have to use the elevator system to get around I saw it several times, and what I saw was a bunch of annoyed staffers (understandably) and a loud excited group.

You keep saying "how bad" it was. Yet give no examples of specific people breaking con-rules.

I just don't understand why you can't deal with troublemakers one at a time.

I know staff volunteers, but we pay 50+ dollars to attend. And you hire S.A.F.E. for situations like large groups.

I think you were just unprepared for such a large and reccous group- better planning would help prevent that.

I don't understand why you feel it right too just turn your backs on such a protaku and supportive community and not even try again.

It's a big middle finger to some very loyal fans and congoers.

Jzzr several examples have been cited in the thread thus far. As for policy violations I would site the Disruptive Behavior Policy. I am sorry you feel offended that your group was blocked from having a panel this year. The policys of Otakon apply to everyone. My reccomendation to you if you want to take action is to take the behavior issue up with the leadership of 4chan for they need to discourage inappropriate behavior done by some of the members of their group.

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JzzrAnime    0
did you not see the youtube videos of the line or read what i said earlier?

It would certainly help, considering he's giving an opinion on something he didn't even witness.

I said I missed the panel. I heard / witnessed the line. Traveled under it too. As I have to use the elevator system to get around I saw it several times, and what I saw was a bunch of annoyed staffers (understandably) and a loud excited group.

You keep saying "how bad" it was. Yet give no examples of specific people breaking con-rules.

I just don't understand why you can't deal with troublemakers one at a time.

I know staff volunteers, but we pay 50+ dollars to attend. And you hire S.A.F.E. for situations like large groups.

I think you were just unprepared for such a large and reccous group- better planning would help prevent that.

I don't understand why you feel it right too just turn your backs on such a protaku and supportive community and not even try again.

It's a big middle finger to some very loyal fans and congoers.

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It's a big middle finger to some very loyal fans and congoers.

We weren't manifested into being as full grown Otakon staffers. We started out as congoers, and we have the congoers in mind with every decision we make. I did give a very good reason, if you took time to read. The line was out of control and it required dozens of people to keep in order. That's a misuse of manpower in a time when good staffers are hard to keep. You should also consider that situations like the 4Chan line make it increasingly difficult for Otakon to maintain good relations with the BCC. Hell, I imagine that they tolerate an awful lot just to keep Otakon's business, I'd hate for us to cross that line one day and have the BCC say "No, thank you" to Otakon's business. If the lack of 4Chan ruins your entire convention experience, then you're just being unreasonable. You're ignoring the vast multitude of things that Otakon puts on each year. Your enjoyment of the weekend shouldn't depend upon one hour of programming.

And I could understand, if such a well planned and well watched panel had caused destruction of property or to otakon itself again and again, I'd totally agree with you, it'd just be a bad idea to keep doing that. But once? And not even given a seond chance? Were people hurt? Was there a fight? A huge hippie love in!? So far all I got was "zOMg! They is loud and disruptive and said things!!"

If I'm not mistaken, there was a fight last year. As for second chances, you'd be asking Otakon to give 4Chan a FOURTH chance. They weren't even supposed to be allowed back last year.

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I haven't attended the previous 4Chan panels and truth be told I do not frequent the site as much as I used to. I agree with Otakon not giving them a panel due to what happened last year. Maybe if they can get their act together and put on some decent panels at other cons, then next year they can get their spot back. Having said all that, I do want to say there is a lot more to 4Chan than the b-channel, and there is no reason to belittle the entire site and all of its users because of it.

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To All posters in this thread, while a spirited debate is fine, please remember to take a moment before you post.

And to reply to some of JzzrAnime's comments regarding this situation.

For the most part we have dealt with troublemakers at Otakon one at a time, but over the past few years the number of troublemakers associated with attending this particular panel and the level of trouble they got into had reached a point that we (Otakon's staff) no longer felt it was worth our time, resources and effort to manage it. This is not just about something that happened last year, as much as last year's situations became those that forced a more rigid decision on us.

The lines before the panel are not the sole aspect about it that led to this decision, although they were a part of it. It's perfectly reasonable to expect large group of people to get excited about a panel, and to carry that excitement while they are waiting for it to start all the way to beyond the end of the panel itself. We knew about this happening from previous years and to a point anticipated it for last year. However, when things reach a point that issues better handled by the Baltimore police than the staff of Otakon regularly occur in relation to this panel, we have to take that into consideration.

All that being said, it's not like we are banning those associated with 4chan from attending Otakon. Far from it. All we have done is say that because of our previous experiences we are not hosting a 4chan panel at this year's Otakon. This decision is at heart is similar to any other programing decision that has been made by the Otakon's Panels Department. After all, Otakon is not only for those who would attend a 4chan panel, but is for a large variety of people with overlapping interests. Unfortunately some people get upset by these decisions and that's the way it will have to be. Finally, because it is a programming decision, it doesn't mean that we won't reconsider our decision for next year's Otakon, but how things go this year will definitely influence any future outcomes.

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Due to activities of some 4chan members during last year's Otakon, Otakon's staff decided that it is in the convention's best interests to not have a 4chan panel at Otakon this year.

Unfortunately the actions of a few people forced us to make this decision, even though not all Otakon attendees who are interested or involved with 4chan were part of the problem.

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I spend more time at 4chan then I should probably even admit, but I have to say I'm actually rather glad they're not having a panel. Them being there always just seemed counterproductive to what the rest of the con is about. It's a shame, ya, since not every single person is out control, but there were more then a few that didn't seem to know that there's a time and a place for everything, and couldn't quite seem to separate the internet from real life.

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Guest deltax20a   
Guest deltax20a

I have been on 4chan and somewhat of a /b/tard since 2003. I'm also a member of staff for Katsucon. I can certainly understand what it's like for both sides of this story. I went to the 4chan Otakon 2006 panel and that was a pretty crazy time, though I thought it was pretty tame compared to some of the other antics I've seen at Otakon and certainly other cons I've been to before. I didn't go to 2007, but I'd take anyone's word for it that it was probably made of fail, especially in the condition "Anonymous" is now with the Scientology protesters and the legion of Guy Fawkes masks, an internal issue amongst the userbase of 4chan. Otakon's decision to not allow a 4chan panel this year comes to no surprise to me and that's within their jursidiction to do so. I do have to agree though that it does take away from some of the reason many of us attend the convention. I myself stopped attending as of 2006 (after skipping 2005) because frankly, the con has grown to the point where I personally no longer find it affordable or practical to attend as it costs me quite a bit of money to stay near the BCC on top of driving from Connecticut. The biggest reason however is that the quality of the con experience and the programming is simply no longer in my interests, and my attending 2006 pretty much proved to me that other than the main reason I went (the 4chan panel) I found nothing else really interesting to do there besides wade through the thousands upon thousands of other anime fans, and no offense, that got pretty nasty in places. So I can understand why some people would be upset for having the main reason they want to attend a convention being removed from them for a reason more or less tl;dr'd to "we don't want them, they make us look bad and cause trouble"

But all of the rest of you are right, no 4chan panel is not going to stop 4channers from attending, probably grouping, dancing around, /b/lockades, real life trolling, and everything else, because 4channers are everyone and no one, just as there will be plenty of regular attendees who are fans of the site, but act like everyone else.

Also, in before rules 1 and 2, Gaia, etc. as I know plenty will start threads over this thread on the site. Feel free to quote me, guys.

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CocoFaerie    28

Okay, I may be late in replying to this, but at first I was thirlled that 4chan was not going to have a panel this year, but then a few of you were voicing concern with what the possible reprocussions of rejecting one of the most popular yet controverisal panels the Otakon has ever had. I don't go to 4chan anyways, but after seeing thier hijinks on Youtube and elsewhere after last year's meeting, I thought to myself these people need to go. On the flip side, I occasionally use Gaia Online, and those people are tamer than 4chan folk, though they've done some recent musings on a couple of TV shows. What I'm saying here is I think those expecting more 4chan crazyness better get over it. I also think the boycott part of this story is being a little speculative, and what I'm worried is what they might do to this Otakon meeting.

That's pretty much what I have to say right now, so I'll just continue on and prepare for the con.

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Ya know.........

There ain't nothing preventing someone within 4chan from stepping forwarding and renting a meeting/banquet room over next door at the Sheraton or soon-to-be-old-Hilton or whatever-the-old-Wyndham-is-now........ or renting out a nearby restaurant or bar in which to hold a "meeting" of whatever sort they wish.......

Nothing, that is, except their lack of organization, lack of accountability, lack of money, and lack of maturity.........

I'd LOVE to see the meeting between hotel managers and some 4chan rep......... "Now, what's your REAL name?.......... And what would be the subject of this meeting?......."

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Champagon    0

ok i need to add a few things, first: how are you supposed to take action up with the "leaders" of 4chan. they technically don't even exist. and second: i don't see the point in paying to enter a convention of fellow anime lovers only to nerd rage and then get kicked out for being an idiot. and if any of you have checked the view count for this thread it has skyrocketed exponentially since yesterday so my BEST guess is that the 4channers are reading this and trying to figure out what to do in order to "own" otakon. maybe, just maybe they will be able to ruin it for everyone. but if that happens whats to be proud of? you just pissed off a bunch of friends a couple of thousand friends

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Please keep it calm folks... we understand that this is a touchy discussion, however points are better made when posts are level headed.

~Topic

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Champagon    0
Finally, because it is a programming decision, it doesn't mean that we won't reconsider our decision for next year's Otakon, but how things go this year will definitely influence any future outcomes.

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I attended the 4chan panel last year at Otakon 2007. While I have to agree that I do see the points of the Otakon staff with not wanting to deal with another group like that, I can also honestly say that I am surprised at how offended some of you got over the panel's antics.

I mean, it's one thing if the manpower is un-available or unnecessary, and that Otakon doesn't want to put it out for a single line-I get that.

But as for them being loud, I went to the FMA Movie in 2006 and I must say that the group there was FAR louder, and upon sighting Mustang at the end coming to help Edward, there were people standing on chairs and screaming. I don't get how this is different?

So some of the people were being royal jerks, I myself was a quiet one waiting for the panel to open, but who really hears "F*** YEAH!" And throws a fit over it? If you really are one of those people then I guess you've been living under a rock, or turning your back on the American society as a whole for your entire life.

I get that it's disagreeable, I get that it's loud, but if it really bothered you that badly, then why would you even come to a large gathering where that happens EVERYWHERE and not just at one panel? Don't sit here and pretend that you never screamed at a con out of excitement, or shouted a curse word or two. I get the cancellation from the Staffers point of view with keeping it under control, but not everyone else's. I'm sorry, I'll probably never understand it.

In b4 sh**storm.

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