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Kappa Lizzy

Change of Size charts and such

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Greetings,

I recently went to Forever 21 and H & M and discovered something different. They appear to have changed the size charts for clothing. It seems now it's Xsmall- XXL.

I always been a Small and rarely a Xsmall but thanks to these new changes almost everything in tops and including panties/bras have been changed to Xsmall.

Does that annoy anyone?

I DO find it a pain, NOT to brag or to be a vain but Xsmall also means a rare size too. At Forever 21 I fell in LOVE with this babydoll top and found out the Small was a little too big in the bust/chest area but the xsmall was perfect cept for the tailoring of the straps. at h & M I was completely annoyed that their idea of Small is a bust of 30 1/2 a/b but a size 2. This was big for me so I convinced myself cept for a purse or a knick knack that H&M was off my list. forever 21 only works if there is an Xsmall, as for other brands I learned Xoxo & Rampage do cater to my size at Small but we are talking about juniors. *Ahem* I do my stuff at Limited too sometimes too.... >_>

Now panties, I dunno why Hanes decided to make Xsmall the new small. But it sue is a pain when the stores do NOT carry it or carry very little of it.

come on people think of the little people.

But when I see these commercials from Dove & suave about little girls accepting themselves to be beautiful as they are 100% I agree & love that. But maybe someone should explain miss Xsmall over there wears that size for a reason.

For me it's high metabolism, and the fact I am 4'11 and small busted. And I am 26 now so I think I am done growing for now.

But as I was posting before, anyone else annoyed or had to deal with this stuff?

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Um. Moving this to chit-chat.

And to answer your question:

I've never had to deal with it, but when my now sister-in-law was shopping for bridesmaid dresses, she had to find a style that was available in size 00 to fit her sister, who is built like a greeting card. It took some shopping, and she eventually got the dress altered to be skinnier anyway.

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its probably som marketing ploy. big name fashion companies do things like this a lot i think. cause my elder sister complains about it too. XXS is probably still XS and the extra X is there just for show. i remember when jc penny/lor and taylor did something like this a lot of people nearly had a fit lol

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I thought this was in chit chat type of thread. And this is regular clothes not costumes. Oh boy sorry about that.

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I can't say that I remember ever being able to wear anything smaller then a "Medium" of anything. :(

That aside, as far as size stuff goes, the only thing that annoys me is that if I want to buy pants, I need to buy them online any more. I can't buy them at a department store because they tend to only stock ONE pair in my size and it's usually purchased right away. Yet, I can't shop at "big and tall" stores because that size is too small for them. ^_^

The only store locally that tends to stock the pants size that I need is Wal*Mart. I don't like how they fit, though, and the pockets tend to wear out way quick. :lol:

So I can't say that I can relate to what you're going through but I CAN say that I've had annoyance finding clothes that fit right locally. I have the same-ish problem on the other side. I'm about 6'2" tall and have sorta long legs. A lot of the "average" sizes don't fit me.

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its probably som marketing ploy. big name fashion companies do things like this a lot i think. cause my elder sister complains about it too. XXS is probably still XS and the extra X is there just for show. i remember when jc penny/lor and taylor did something like this a lot of people nearly had a fit lol

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its probably som marketing ploy. big name fashion companies do things like this a lot i think. cause my elder sister complains about it too. XXS is probably still XS and the extra X is there just for show. i remember when jc penny/lor and taylor did something like this a lot of people nearly had a fit lol

LOL I know Victoria Secret carries XXS and even XXXS. I glared at that size chart and said, "You make me look like a broomstick." But I never tried on Vs's clothes.

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Women are getting smaller. I'm 5'11" and more or less have to order my jeans out of catalogs now because there are only one or two stores that carry jeans/pants that are long enough for me - I'm simply a freaking giant compared to the average American woman. :D

(This just in: ZILLA-GL TERRORIZES BALTIMORE! NO ONE IS SAFE! MAYHEM AND DESTRUCTION FOLLOW IN HER WAKE! ^_^ )

*I should add that while stores like Nordstrom or what have you carry jeans with 36" inseams, aforementioned Jeans for Giants are also usually far, far out of my modest college-student budget, and are built in the much-mourned "XXS" sizes (which I am not, nor ever will be heh).

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I disagree about women "getting smaller," unless you mean "shorter." From what I hear, women are getting shorter in the US, but they're definitely not getting thinner. And sizes, unfortunately, mean much more about the width of your frame than your height.

Every few years, the fashion industry readjusts sizes for various reasons, such as marketing or the changing of the general demographic.

For example, Marilyn Monroe supposedly wore a size 12 dress size in her day. In truth, she probably would have been no bigger than a size 2 or 4 today, as her waist was said to be 22-23 inches around. (However, her 36 inch hips and 36 inch bust size probably wouldn't have gotten her into a size 0. . . .)

When I was in high school, I wore a US size 2. When I got to college, I wore a US size 0. Now, a US size 0 fits like a bag. I haven't gotten any thinner in the last 15 years either. Most of my petite friends have all complained that US sizes have gotten bigger. Where things used to only come in S, M, L and XL, now you have XXS, XS, M, L and XL. There are no new smaller sizes. Just the same ones with new names.

Clothing is a business, so most companies are going to try to fit as many people for as little money as possible. (Less variety means less cost.) If the average size of the general demographic goes up, then sizes will need to as well. This usually means cutting out sizes at the ends of the spectrum, and for cheaper brands, it also means giving clothing the most generic of cut as possible. Most people outside the average spectrum are generally going to find that they have to turn to more expensive clothing choices in order to make things fit correctly. Fit, design and materials all reflect in the price of clothing. It's largely about economics.

If you're shopping cheap, but aren't within the confines of "average," you're not going to find your happy fashion match very easily. It's much better being too small to fit things than being too large to fit things. You can always get items that are too large altered if you are inclined to buy them. OP needs to learn the pain that tall and/or big people go through. There's no way you can make pants that are too short look cool. You can cut and chop, but you can't add. One of my guy friends has to buy high-end women's jeans just to find an inseam long enough for his super-lanky 6'4 body. (And even then, they look a little short...)

I'm 4'11 (short by both US and Japan standards) and thin by US standards but a bit curvier than the average girl in Japan. While it's certainly more convenient to buy things that fit straight off the rack, I don't expect it to always happen. I either get the item altered or move on. Something else will show up eventually.

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*I should add that while stores like Nordstrom or what have you carry jeans with 36" inseams, aforementioned Jeans for Giants are also usually far, far out of my modest college-student budget, and are built in the much-mourned "XXS" sizes (which I am not, nor ever will be heh).

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While I don't have your 'xs' problem (although part of me wishes I did), I ALWAYS have a fit problem. I'm a weirdly curvy lady (41-29-40; large bust, big ol' childbearing hips, very small waist), so I always have to get my clothes tailored at the waist to avoid looking like a sack of potatoes. I'm actually kind of glad things are getting a little bigger - you can tailor down, but you can't tailor up.

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I lost a 116 lbs over the last 2 years ...even though finding clothes I like is a lot easier, because I am toning and losing more weight, I am hyper critical about how something fits my body. Button down shirts have always been an issue with me because I have a large bust. I've ALWAYS had inseam problems with pants even though I'm tall (5'9) Average was a little long, Tall was way to long, and Petite was short. I usually have to take in dress slacks and skirts in to be tailored to shorten the hems.

Even being the same size as someone else but different height affects how clothes fit. For instance, a friend of mine bought a skirt at hot topic a couple weeks ago, on her (she's 5'3), it came to a little above the knee, on me the skirt came an inch below my butt...and we tried on the same skirt (that she ended up getting) O_o

Anyhoo, I usually suggest to people who have trouble finding sizes (small and large) to look at their favorite store's website and shop online. Many (like the GAP and AE) carry stuff from the tinest sizes that make too the largest that you can not find in stores.

Let's not talk about how much MC spent in buying clothes for the last 2 years thanks to her weight loss..@_@

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there are only one or two stores that carry jeans/pants that are long enough for me - I'm simply a freaking giant compared to the average American woman. ^_^

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I disagree about women "getting smaller," unless you mean "shorter." From what I hear, women are getting shorter in the US, but they're definitely not getting thinner. And sizes, unfortunately, mean much more about the width of your frame than your height.

Every few years, the fashion industry readjusts sizes for various reasons, such as marketing or the changing of the general demographic.

When I was in high school, I wore a US size 2. When I got to college, I wore a US size 0. Now, a US size 0 fits like a bag. I haven't gotten any thinner in the last 15 years either. Most of my petite friends have all complained that US sizes have gotten bigger. Where things used to only come in S, M, L and XL, now you have XXS, XS, M, L and XL. There are no new smaller sizes. Just the same ones with new names.

I'm 4'11 (short by both US and Japan standards) and thin by US standards but a bit curvier than the average girl in Japan. While it's certainly more convenient to buy things that fit straight off the rack, I don't expect it to always happen. I either get the item altered or move on. Something else will show up eventually.

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I'm more annoyed with how the main market doesn't sell the whole range of bra sizes. Bra sizes go from A to K (I'm pretty sure it might be J).

Best shopping day in my life. The day my older sister took me to a specialty bra store and had me professionally fitted. There is nothing more comfortable then a bra that actually fits because it does what it is supposed too. Supports the weight of your breasts on your lower back and not your shoulders.

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i went to forever 21 near where i live and they didn't change it yet...i hope they don't' but then again i hope they do.... I'm already really small to a point where i have to wear children cloth (sad i know) but i like the sizing the way it is. I think they are trying to target smaller audience like pre -teen maybe? It just like hot topic, the shirt said XS but it was smaller than an S...maybe they order the sizing wrong or i'm not equally shaped in the same area as others...

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i went to forever 21 near where i live and they didn't change it yet...i hope they don't' but then again i hope they do.... I'm already really small to a point where i have to wear children cloth (sad i know) but i like the sizing the way it is. I think they are trying to target smaller audience like pre -teen maybe? It just like hot topic, the shirt said XS but it was smaller than an S...maybe they order the sizing wrong or i'm not equally shaped in the same area as others...

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BTW thanks Maria I see I will be like you at age 47 ^_^ heheh.

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I am currently 26 ^^

Anyways I was ooking at the What Not To Wear Show, I was hoping they'd give an explanation but not yet.

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its probably som marketing ploy. big name fashion companies do things like this a lot i think. cause my elder sister complains about it too. XXS is probably still XS and the extra X is there just for show. i remember when jc penny/lor and taylor did something like this a lot of people nearly had a fit lol

LOL I know Victoria Secret carries XXS and even XXXS. I glared at that size chart and said, "You make me look like a broomstick." But I never tried on Vs's clothes.

actually i get the opposite feeling from Victoria's Secret clothes. i'm not sure about other stores but i've been working for VS for years. i really only but the PINK (the brand) clothes but surprisingly i wear a M-L. they seem to be a size bigger than normal clothing. also the sizes only run from XS to XL. (well maybe online has more) but i'm by far not what you would call thin. they seem to be pretty good on me so far... sadly though i wardrobe has slowly morfed itself to work clothes and clothes i brought from work ^_^;

but back to topic i wish they do it by measurement or something but the sizes are all different depending on the store it's just to give you a rough guideline so you can approcimate what size you are... it's best to try on all clothes before you buy it anyways but i agree that it's a pian trying to find that perfect size...

ps i'm 22

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That's an idea but I am not finding much in my size. Take for example H&M- the sizes start at 2 but for me it's still too big. Even their so called small isn't for me.

I was looking at the stuff online and decided that I rather stick to the brands I DO know!

But wanna know something for a fun fashion tip? If you got a Salavation Army near u go there and put together a great outfit!

Pros: Finding awesome treasures like New York & Company, H & M, XOXO,Rampage, Tommy Hilfiger,etc cons:: stains, torn pieces, or a stinky piece or maybe not even your size.

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That's an idea but I am not finding much in my size. Take for example H&M- the sizes start at 2 but for me it's still too big. Even their so called small isn't for me.

I was looking at the stuff online and decided that I rather stick to the brands I DO know!

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LOL well I can admit Pretty Girl, 579, rainbow stores,XOXO & Rampage cater to me but dang it there is some CUTE stuff at forever 21 or H & M I wish I could have. I bought this BEAUTIFUL tunic dress that was size small at Forever 21 but it looked big. Nonethe less it was BEAUITFUL, last 1 I couldn't resist it. I fell in love with this. It was grey, with a black bottom, cute design of flower and birds. It was LOVELY.

So yea I bought it, put it on, it was a little too floaty out. I felt like a flower on a water surface. STILL beautiful. Looks like I need to tailor it abit. With a nice pair of leggings, heels,necklace,etc it's perfect!

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I admit I can see it 2 ways

1. YES girls like me and Maria over there will be size Xsmall/Small for a long time

2. It is a downer for girls who are bigger maybe feel upset or offended by it to be thinner but view t as an encouragement.

Anyone ever see that Yogurt commercial of the chick who ate yogurt and hung a yellow-pokadotted bikini on the wall? She would walk by it smiling as she ate the yogurt and by the summer time she lost the weight ,went to the beach & wore her bikini.

So view it like that. Unless you got big boobs then please don't get Small thinking your all that. your something else but you don't want me posting that.

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I admit I can see it 2 ways

1. YES girls like me and Maria over there will be size Xsmall/Small for a long time

2. It is a downer for girls who are bigger maybe feel upset or offended by it to be thinner but view t as an encouragement.

Anyone ever see that Yogurt commercial of the chick who ate yogurt and hung a yellow-pokadotted bikini on the wall? She would walk by it smiling as she ate the yogurt and by the summer time she lost the weight ,went to the beach & wore her bikini.

So view it like that. Unless you got big boobs then please don't get Small thinking your all that. your something else but you don't want me posting that.

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Another incentive for people to get thinner...ugh.

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I admit I can see it 2 ways

1. YES girls like me and Maria over there will be size Xsmall/Small for a long time

2. It is a downer for girls who are bigger maybe feel upset or offended by it to be thinner but view t as an encouragement.

Anyone ever see that Yogurt commercial of the chick who ate yogurt and hung a yellow-pokadotted bikini on the wall? She would walk by it smiling as she ate the yogurt and by the summer time she lost the weight ,went to the beach & wore her bikini.

So view it like that. Unless you got big boobs then please don't get Small thinking your all that. your something else but you don't want me posting that.

Ack! Kappa Lizzy, I'm not exactly an xsmall! Yes, I do wear size 2 petite pants and still buy junior small, but I have broad shoulders. It's strange how the body changes as you age. I used to be more pear-shaped when I was your age; however, my present look is more built (I don't know why... Maybe the boot camp classes or dance? Maybe age? Don't know) Just today, while I was buying lunch, one of the cashiers was saying that I looked really good, like I was going to dance somewhere. I told her that I was wearing something for dance, one of Suhaila Salimpour's designs, a lavender tank top (Salimpour legacy) and...I don't know what you call those bottoms -- skorts? Well, they were part of the junior career separates at Boscov's. But it's hard to tell the sizes these days because of the constant change! I guess I'm the small, you're the extra extra small. :)

I just wish they'd get size charts standardized, though. When they differ from one brand to another, it makes even online shopping difficult! (I remember the difference between Capezio and Selva ballet/pointe shoe sizes. What was a 5 for Capezio was a 3 for Selva)

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Women are getting smaller. I'm 5'11" and more or less have to order my jeans out of catalogs now because there are only one or two stores that carry jeans/pants that are long enough for me - I'm simply a freaking giant compared to the average American woman. :wub:

(This just in: ZILLA-GL TERRORIZES BALTIMORE! NO ONE IS SAFE! MAYHEM AND DESTRUCTION FOLLOW IN HER WAKE! :wub: )

*I should add that while stores like Nordstrom or what have you carry jeans with 36" inseams, aforementioned Jeans for Giants are also usually far, far out of my modest college-student budget, and are built in the much-mourned "XXS" sizes (which I am not, nor ever will be heh).

Try finding 28 waist 36 inseams pants in a store or size 15 shoes..

American Sizes suck. Screw "average" size people

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LOL I used to wear relax after my brain tumor surgery- blasted steroids but lost the weight quickly in time, My mom has trouble finding stuff why she likes to get stuff from Mexico or other counteries.

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Just to add my few cents here...

My mother has trouble finding clothes her size too. She's definitely petite/X-Small kinda person...but unfortunately she dosent go for the more "hip" clothing from H&M or Forever 21. She has been really frustated in finding her sizes from the malls in Maryland - it got to the point that sometimes we gotta go to the HK clothing websites just to special order something she likes. Shoes too.

Is there a size discrimination in the US retail industry?

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Honestly I think there is. It's what the fashion Industry expects not what you really are. Like example your mom, the fashion industry doesn't expect your mommy to be that small. They expect your mom to be big, wearing relaxed clothes not Xsmall/small stuff even in petites I find that stuff is still too big for me.

It's sad but they think once your 30 ++ you let yourself go. :wub: Sad truth I like to prove these buttheads in the fashion industry wrong.

I rather see it like this. What is your natural build? Do you have small bust or a big bust? As a kid where you chubby or always skinny? Do you have a fast or slow metabolism? If you work out is there certain things you can or can not do do to your health? Using all that and accepting that is a start and something these fashion companies fail to let you know. Plus the fact teen girls, or pre teens see the image of these "Beautiful skinny girls getting all the attention, making it in the world cause they are pretty,etc" It can make you feel ugly and bad about yourself I admit.

What needs to be done is better role models and no more super skinny, flat chested or big (Fake usual :-P) saying look like me, you can wear this & have all this. :P

That's my thoughts

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Honestly I think there is. It's what the fashion Industry expects not what you really are. Like example your mom, the fashion industry doesn't expect your mommy to be that small. They expect your mom to be big, wearing relaxed clothes not Xsmall/small stuff even in petites I find that stuff is still too big for me.

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Clothes shopping is a nightmare for me. I'm five feet tall and size 14 and have a bit more in the chest department than I'd like. Old Navy is the only place thus far that makes jeans short enough in my size that aren't still hanging way over my feet. Luckily, they've decided to release a whole line for Petite (5'4" and under) and tall (5'7" and over).

They're the one place I know size 14 is the same 14 I've always worn. I went to American Eagle and bought shorts in 14 and they fit, but a particular pair of jeans was too small but another fit was fine but were regular and too long.

I could probably wear a medium size shirt if my chest were smaller, but as is I wear large which is fine except that some shirt cuts are too loose at my abdomen but I can't wear smaller due to chest size.

When I find things that look good I feel very happy, but I do get the sense that a lot of fashion seems to require being lithe and having like no boobs. There are many cute dresses I would love but don't fit my chest. Alas.

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There is plenty of amazing fashion for women in their 30's and beyond. My mother who is 5'1 always dresses impeccably.

Word. My mom is 62 years old, 5'2 and in amazing shape (especially at her age). She has a better fashion sense then a woman of 30, hell...she looks better then a lot of women half her age too if I say so myself. How ballsy is she? She wears short skirts and can carry them off.

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sorry I am trying to see this from all angles not looking to insult anyone. I see lots of things on tv of the image then looking at the clothes changing their sizes makes you wonder what's up. My bad I wasn't insulting anyone at all.

and Infamous really? That sounds awesome!! You go girl :-D

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Clothes shopping is hell for me period. X_X I wasn't exactly thin to begin with and steriods from the big c didn't help but I dont wear girl's clothing. Never have for my whole life (XD because in all honesty i failed real bad when i was asked how to put on a dress, etc. and << parents tried xD and failed to make me girly) but I do understand how shopping can be. << sometimes I'm just astonished whenever I go shopping with my mom and sister to see all of these sizes. @o@ It kinda makes me wonder what a person's standard is, like clothing size wise. I havent really paid much attention to it but << the fat jokes directed at me everyday...yeah that just brings up my question about what is the average waist size? or the average size of so on and so forth. Ah, fabric, you will always be the vital bane of my existance.

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Speaking as a bigger girl, I'm going to have to agree with Kaki here. It's almost impossible to find affordable clothing in my size, especially stuff that I feel comfortable wearing and doesn't make me look like my grandmother. I've resorted to shopping in the Men's Big & Tall section at JC Penney for any of my casual stuff, and the stuff I wear to work I have to pay about $50 a piece for.

Which is not to say that I don't understand your side of it as well, just to say that I'd never thought of it from the smaller side of things. Have you tried shopping online?

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Average woman measurements (American) according to some place online:

38-42 inch bust

32-36 inch waist

39-43 inch hips

*turns off staff mode*

I have a hard time finding button down shirts because of my breast size. No matter how much smaller my waist and hips have become, because I have large breasts, getting button down or non stretchy blouses will always require me to go up a size or two because I am a 42D (or DD depending on the bra).

If women allow the media to cloud their judgments and make them insecure about their sizes (small, large, and in between), then quite frankly that is their problem. I actually see a lot of magazines (Instyle, Cosmo, Marie Claire, Seventeen) that cater to offering advice on how women of every size should dress according to their body size and show styles for it. They also tell you where you can find some of the clothes. Look, if your going to follow trends no matter what your size is, it will never be cheap. Being "fashionable" is costly. I actually find that it is easier to get a variety of sizes online then to go in store, but that's my opinion.

I have always had the confidence to wear what I want and my personal motto is "To hell with everyone else". I'm currently a size 16/18 (I used to be a size 26/28), and very proud of how much weight I lost so far and my continuing progress. I will never be a size 8 and you know what, I am fine with that. If I want to wear something close fitting to show off my curves, I will because I accept myself as the awesome person I am..well that and I find most empire waists make you look larger then you are which is pointless.

Anyhoo, my personal two cents.

*turns staff mode back on*

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sorry I am trying to see this from all angles not looking to insult anyone. I see lots of things on tv of the image then looking at the clothes changing their sizes makes you wonder what's up. My bad I wasn't insulting anyone at all.

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watch "what not to wear" sometime.

You get what you pay for. The people who are REALLY fashion conscious and who appear on TV with very sophisticated looks? As Kaki says, they simply do not shop at the mall, so there will always be a disconnect there.

They go to boutiques and drop $500 on a pair of pants, or *maybe* hit Nordstrom's upstairs and get a tailored item.

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