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bigdaddykev

Possible change in Dance - We want your opinion!

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There is a possibility of the Dance (aka the Rave) being moved to two of the Hilton's new ballrooms. What I want to know from you guys is the following:

1) For/Against the move and reasons

2) Do you think it would bring in more/less people?

3) Any other comments revolving the above question.

Sorry that I can't go into any more detail.

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It depends. What else would the ballroom space be used for? If there is other programming that could go there, then no. The lobbies are pretty good for the dance, far as I can tell.

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There is a possibility of the Dance (aka the Rave) being moved to two of the Hilton's new ballrooms. What I want to know from you guys is the following:

1) For/Against the move and reasons

2) Do you think it would bring in more/less people?

3) Any other comments revolving the above question.

Sorry that I can't go into any more detail.

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im giving a big NO to this

as a person that is staying in the hilton, last thing anyone else wants in the hilton, is more people riding the elevators or having "rave" parties in the elevators.

also bringing this crowd closer to where people are trying to sleep dosen't strike me as a good idea, i can already see the disturbances caused by people thinking its funny to go up on the other floors and start banging on peoples doors.

that also brings up another point, less security. if people want to do something they aren't supposed to, instead of leaving the con or going back to their own hotel, they will go find some unsupervised floor and take advantage of it just out of sheer laziness. I really don't feel like walking out of my room at 1:30 am at seeing a dry hump orgy going on at my floor outside my door.

now im not saying EVERYONE at the dance is going to do this, but past videos have all shown us there is that minority of idiots that will pull something like this.

unless you have some kind of security riding in the elevator and on every floor to prevent this, i don't think its a good idea.

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I disagree as well. I think keeping the ravers out ANY of the hotels is probably a good idea. That, and I like where the Dance is now. I just like the setting.

Then again, having the Dance in one of the ballrooms probably means we can actually have the lights OFF... right?

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im giving a big NO to this

as a person that is staying in the hilton, last thing anyone else wants in the hilton, is more people riding the elevators or having "rave" parties in the elevators.

also bringing this crowd closer to where people are trying to sleep dosen't strike me as a good idea, i can already see the disturbances caused by people thinking its funny to go up on the other floors and start banging on peoples doors.

that also brings up another point, less security. if people want to do something they aren't supposed to, instead of leaving the con or going back to their own hotel, they will go find some unsupervised floor and take advantage of it just out of sheer laziness. I really don't feel like walking out of my room at 1:30 am at seeing a dry hump orgy going on at my floor outside my door.

now im not saying EVERYONE at the dance is going to do this, but past videos have all shown us there is that minority of idiots that will pull something like this.

unless you have some kind of security riding in the elevator and on every floor to prevent this, i don't think its a good idea.

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im giving a big NO to this

as a person that is staying in the hilton, last thing anyone else wants in the hilton, is more people riding the elevators or having "rave" parties in the elevators.

also bringing this crowd closer to where people are trying to sleep dosen't strike me as a good idea, i can already see the disturbances caused by people thinking its funny to go up on the other floors and start banging on peoples doors.

that also brings up another point, less security. if people want to do something they aren't supposed to, instead of leaving the con or going back to their own hotel, they will go find some unsupervised floor and take advantage of it just out of sheer laziness. I really don't feel like walking out of my room at 1:30 am at seeing a dry hump orgy going on at my floor outside my door.

now im not saying EVERYONE at the dance is going to do this, but past videos have all shown us there is that minority of idiots that will pull something like this.

unless you have some kind of security riding in the elevator and on every floor to prevent this, i don't think its a good idea.

...How is this any different from Drunken Otaku doing the same thing in your hotels?

I personally don't see the difference. Having the rave in the B.R.'s adds much needed space. It always seems very cramped over there when I've gone over to look, which is why I never bother to enter.

Plus, it seems like there would be added security automatically, considering that it would be in the Hilton. hotel have pretty strict guidelines, and I'm pretty sure they are on par, if not higher, than those at the rave in the BCC.

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I remember awhile back seeing floor plans for the new hotel and it's convention space, it looked good because the THREE buildings where inclosed walkways. [thats right I said three]

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I think the ballroom will be more suited for the rave, I've been to other Hilton hotels before and most don't let you enter the hotel if you don't show ur hotel key. Is not like they are going to stay quiet and don't do anything if ravers start making noise on the elevators or hallways. Progress shouldn't succumb to lack of manners, that's what security is for. I'm also staying at the Hilton by the way :)

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katsucon has had their rave in the hotel ballroom for years now. as far as i know there havnt been any real problems.

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katsucon has had their rave in the hotel ballroom for years now. as far as i know there havnt been any real problems.

yes, but otakon is also 4-5 times the attendance size of katsucon

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im giving a big NO to this

as a person that is staying in the hilton, last thing anyone else wants in the hilton, is more people riding the elevators or having "rave" parties in the elevators.

also bringing this crowd closer to where people are trying to sleep dosen't strike me as a good idea, i can already see the disturbances caused by people thinking its funny to go up on the other floors and start banging on peoples doors.

that also brings up another point, less security. if people want to do something they aren't supposed to, instead of leaving the con or going back to their own hotel, they will go find some unsupervised floor and take advantage of it just out of sheer laziness. I really don't feel like walking out of my room at 1:30 am at seeing a dry hump orgy going on at my floor outside my door.

now im not saying EVERYONE at the dance is going to do this, but past videos have all shown us there is that minority of idiots that will pull something like this.

unless you have some kind of security riding in the elevator and on every floor to prevent this, i don't think its a good idea.

If I'm not mistaken isn't the vast majority of the rooms seperate from the actual ballrooms and meeting areas in the Hilton? I stayed there recently and when I was there we were in the main hotel area which housed the bar, front desk, valet area, and a few meeting rooms. The second area which is accesible by a glass bridge seemed to house the main ballrooms, resturants, and meeting areas. Not to say that even if this is the way the hotel is setup that you won't have the issues described, but it would cut down on some of the things you discussed above.

Personally I think its a good idea to utilize the extra space in the hotel for the dance. It leaves rooms open in the actual convention center for other things, like more video rooms, and it gives ravers more space to do their thing.

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it would be cool to have it go longer since it wouldnt be under BCC rules (i assume?)

I'm not on Dance staff, so this is in no way an official opinion

Just remember that there's a lot more to take in to account than the BCC closing down when we figure out when the dance will close. You have to remember that the staff needs to sleep eventually. Even though a good number of Dance staffers work excluively for that department, they are still heavily supplimented by SpecOps staffers who have been working 8+ hours by the time the dance usually closes. Plus we need to make sure that we can provide enough water to keep you guys from passing out on us and the longer the dance goes the more water you're going to need. After a certain point it's going to be hard to find hotel staff who can get us that water (which was a major problem with the saturday night dance at Katsu this year - we were getting dangerously close to needing to shut down).

I'm not saying that we wouldn't stay open later, just that there's a lot more that needs to be considered than the BCC's closing time.

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If I'm not mistaken isn't the vast majority of the rooms seperate from the actual ballrooms and meeting areas in the Hilton? I stayed there recently and when I was there we were in the main hotel area which housed the bar, front desk, valet area, and a few meeting rooms. The second area which is accesible by a glass bridge seemed to house the main ballrooms, resturants, and meeting areas. Not to say that even if this is the way the hotel is setup that you won't have the issues described, but it would cut down on some of the things you discussed above.

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While I've already suggested that the dance move (to accommodate the growing number of people who seem to attend), I do have some concerns.

1. Is this area far enough away from the rooms to avoid waking people up with the music?

2. How well ventilated will this space be (I hope this doesn't need to be explained)?

3. Can the area meet the electrical needs (all that equipment has to suck some serious juice)?

4. Would the carpet cleaning bill be cheaper or more expensive?

5. Are there accessible bathrooms nearby?

6. How would bag check be handled (or would there even be one)?

7. How many water fountains (takes a while for water to get cold after replacing a jug), extra water jugs, and sleeves of cups in each room?

8. Where would the nearest USABLE entrance and exit be for people who need fresh air or want to smoke?

These are just a few that come to mind, but to answer the original post:

1. Maybe. I am for A move, not necessarily this one. See above.

2. That depends on how easy it is to get to. To me it seems attendance just keeps growing the past few years.

3. Again, see above.

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katsucon has had their rave in the hotel ballroom for years now. as far as i know there havnt been any real problems.

yes, but otakon is also 4-5 times the attendance size of katsucon

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Thanks for the opinions stated thus far.

I wish I could go into more detail with you guys but we are still working out finalizing everything in "staff land" and thus can't say anything.

To all of the questions of Hiltons rules/restrictions vs. BCC's I'm not 100% on the specifics thus I will not be answering those at this time. Just know that if a move does happen that the staff members of Otakon will have looked into all of the issues you post in this thread and attempt to make it the best event possible year after year.

I've actually got an email from the person in charge of Dance Staff to share with you guys:

"Members,

This is Hope, I am in charge of the Otakurave. We have an opportunity to move dance for either this year or in the future. The rave is very important to me and I try very hard to make it as fun as possible for all of the members, which is why I am asking for your input. I want to know how you all feel about the POSSIBILITY of dance moving. It is only an IDEA, NOTHING SOLID at this point. There has been a lot of confusion about this and I apologize about that. Please post what you think, positive and negative ideas. I will be considering all of your points of view as we explore this OPTION. I do not want to compromise the fun everyone has. Please remember, this is an OPTION. We are only EXPLORING the idea, nothing has been decided. When a decision is made, I will post it here so everyone knows what is going on. Thank you very much for your input and please, keep things nice on the thread. If you have specific questions please ask and I can answer them to the best of my ability. Thank you all!

Hope"

So keep those suggestions/comments coming regarding this topic and as always if you have anything else you want to share but want it to be private please send me a PM and I'll get back to you ASAP.

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A lot of people seem to have complaints about the lights being on. You may want to look into the Hilton's policy on lighting, as that may be another deciding factor.

My only fears are the technical aspects of it. How are the acoustics in the ballroom? Would the DJs be able to have better quality music in the current location or in the ballroom? Will people be able to find the new location easily? A 'ballroom' implies a more elegant, controlled environment, unlike the madness that typically occurs at raves. Sound control is another issue. Will anyone be disturbed by the loud music and bass? While the Hilton will be fully prepared for the Otaku crowd, I'm not sure it would be ready to take on the large amount of ravers. As previously stated, it did look like there were plenty of gaps of space in the current location. Part of the experience of the rave is a large amount of people enclosed in one area, anyway - though I'm sure many won't agree with me here, heh.

I'll just agree with whatever location will be easier for staff, con-goers, DJs, VJs, and the Hilton and BCC staff. And of course, whichever disturbs the civilians the least.

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I have done concerts in ballrooms before including a Hilton. Though not this one in Baltimore. Usually you can turn off the lights and they tend to be far enough away from actual rooms that they won't have a problem with noise. The Hilton I did sound for was actually had pretty decent acoustics. I wouldn't say that they are the absolute best, but they don't echo too bad. It also depends on how many rooms they connect together. I would probly say if they did this it would be 2 rooms connected together at LEAST.

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6. How would bag check be handled (or would there even be one)?

My main concern was what, if anything, would be going on next door in any of the adjoining rooms. As well intentioned as it may be, soundproofing something like the rave is bound to be a matter of degrees.

Then again, if traffic flow would be more free and permit a less constricted bag check, that could be worth a little noise bleed-over.

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I guess it would reduce the crowding, but other than that I say no, don't move it.

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6. How would bag check be handled (or would there even be one)?

My main concern was what, if anything, would be going on next door in any of the adjoining rooms. As well intentioned as it may be, soundproofing something like the rave is bound to be a matter of degrees.

Then again, if traffic flow would be more free and permit a less constricted bag check, that could be worth a little noise bleed-over.

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Do you happen to know if the move would be to the "Billie Holiday Junior Ballroom" or the "Francis Scott Key Grand Ballroom"? To let everyone else know the ballrooms are 87.00' x 171.00' (14,877sq ft) and 118.00' x 216.00' (25,488sq ft) respectively... Now either of these rooms should provide ample amount of space and according to the floorplan (http://www.hilton.com/en/hi/hotels/hotelpromo.jhtml?ctyhocn=BWICCHH&promo=floorplans&cid=OH,HH,bwicc,FloorPlansF) it shouldn't affect hotel guests... BUT I can see this being a problem if even one person gets out of hand and I totally agree that there has to be some different security measures than the ones in effect at the BCC during normal times... I believe that the sound equipment would have to be changed too if either ballroom were to be utilized as the acoustics in both rooms seem to echo a bit...

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There is a possibility of the Dance (aka the Rave) being moved to two of the Hilton's new ballrooms. What I want to know from you guys is the following:

1) For/Against the move and reasons

2) Do you think it would bring in more/less people?

3) Any other comments revolving the above question.

Sorry that I can't go into any more detail.

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If this were to happen, it would likely be the Holiday ballroom, as it is in a separate building - away from any guest rooms by a good margin.

I think it is safe to say that noise from the dance itself would not affect any other Otakon programming or any guests staying in the hotel.

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If this were to happen, it would likely be the Holiday ballroom, as it is in a separate building - away from any guest rooms by a good margin.

I think it is safe to say that noise from the dance itself would not affect any other Otakon programming or any guests staying in the hotel.

Yup, that's what I was saying earlier -- the one buried in the main hotel is bigger, but more likely to have issues. The one in the in-between building is almost ideal, but until you and I touched base this week, I was under the impression it had been booked by someone else.

Sound baffling is possible with sufficient pipe-and-drape.

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If this were to happen, it would likely be the Holiday ballroom, as it is in a separate building - away from any guest rooms by a good margin.

I think it is safe to say that noise from the dance itself would not affect any other Otakon programming or any guests staying in the hotel.

Yup, that's what I was saying earlier -- the one buried in the main hotel is bigger, but more likely to have issues. The one in the in-between building is almost ideal, but until you and I touched base this week, I was under the impression it had been booked by someone else.

Sound baffling is possible with sufficient pipe-and-drape.

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There is a possibility of the Dance (aka the Rave) being moved to two of the Hilton's new ballrooms. What I want to know from you guys is the following:

1) For/Against the move and reasons

2) Do you think it would bring in more/less people?

3) Any other comments revolving the above question.

Sorry that I can't go into any more detail.

1-3) I don't think it matters - ravers will go where the rave is, moving it to the hilton (which is RIGHT next to the con center) won't matter. As long as you advertise where it's going to be prior to the event and have a map for how to get there, it won't matter whether it's in the convention center lobby or on the roof of a nearby hotel. >_<

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My main concern at this point in time is getting information on the air circulation in the proposed sites. I've noticed the past two years that I've gone to otakon, that the air in the current rave rooms is thick, hot and suffocating. If the proposed sites have improved air circulation, they I am for the move. If not, stay put. The current location seems decent and so/so size wise.

Another good question, allot of people will be attending the rave, that's for sure, and of course jumping up and down. Are the two proposed sites above any floors? If so, will the rooms be able to accommodate the dancers and jumping?

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I think the rave should stay in the convention center, but in a larger place than last year, since it seemed rather confined. I think moving it to a hotel would be a bit unusual when everything else is in the convention center, plus the people staying in that hotel would probably find it annoying, con goer or otherwise. I say stick to the con center, in a big room.

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I'm amazed that alot of you seemed to forget 1 BIG thing, the place they are planing for is the building BETWEEN the Baltimore Convention Center and the hotel, for that building is the Hilton's convention center. I apologize for going a bit off topic there. ^_^

ok I FOUND what I was looking for, finally.... check this link out for floor plans and construction details

Hilton convention center.

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I'm amazed that alot of you seemed to forget 1 BIG thing, the place they are planing for is the building BETWEEN the Baltimore Convention Center and the hotel, for that building is the Hilton's convention center. I apologize for going a bit off topic there. ^_^

ok I FOUND what I was looking for, finally.... check this link out for floor plans and construction details

Hilton convention center.

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I think too much room would totally kill the dance floor energy. I mean, there's already too much room to begin with. It might just be a matter of personal taste but a rave to me just isn't a rave unless it's packed and crowded.

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its connected to the hotel though right? im still concerned how your going to keep rave people from spilling into the main living areas.

For what it's worth, in order to make it to the hotel room areas of the hotel one would need to cross over a second walkway from the building in which we are considering holding the dance. At that point those folks would be far enough removed from the dance that they really can't be considered as participating in it anymore.

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1) I'm ALL for this move. Granted, I've never been to Otakon, but this sounds like a fabulous idea. The AUSA rave was held at the hotel ballroom, and there was a significant amount of room. Everyone had their own little space to dance and it wasn't overly crowded.

2) I think it would bring in more people because of the amount of extra room it would give people. From what I heard about last years rave, it was fairly crowded (for a rave) and moving it to a bigger space would allow for better airflow and circulation and less con-funk.

3) This would be so awesome, because I'm staying at the Hilton this year. It would be EXTREMELY convienient for me and the group I'm going with. I also think that with the rave being in a hotel, those that don't need to walk back to their hotel it makes things a bit safer, so they're not walking around downtown baltimore at 3am lol.

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For what it's worth, in order to make it to the hotel room areas of the hotel one would need to cross over a second walkway from the building in which we are considering holding the dance. At that point those folks would be far enough removed from the dance that they really can't be considered as participating in it anymore.

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Hi Everyone! Here is my humble opinion in regards to the dance/rave based on my experience being a Dj and by attending different events from small to big scale like the Ultra Fest in Miami. Last Otakon it was amazing to see the variety of Dj's that participated for which I have to give credit to HI 5 for a good performance as well to the rest of the Dj's in both rooms. I particularly prefer that if this move occurs, that the organizers should make sure of keeping the 2 rooms or better a 3-room setup. I am not sure if this is possible or how the Hilton ballroom is divided with the wall partitions and not quite sure how good of sound proof they are but for the way that it has been constructed to hold big events, I am sure that it was made thinking of the guests staying at the hotel. It would have been of a poor design if they would had not considered the sound noise levels that any event can have on that particular ballroom. Plus it has to have a separate entry point to avoid going through the hotel rooms I hope.

My reasons for keeping a 2 to 3 room setup is that it will allow for people to have a chance to move around, somehow it will create more of a breathing room avoiding over crowding in one spot, and will give them more choices of Dj's/music to listen or dance to. Imagine having only one stage thousands of people gathering on one spot trying to be closer to the stage, it will definitely get hotter, smelly, sweat flying everywhere, less room to dance or even worse if the Dj performing did not select a good set of songs the crowd would not only be disappointed but will be upset of the whole ambience. In certain cases because of the one performing stage situation, I have seen people pushing each other not having room to dance, people passing out from heat exhaustion, no room to breath, fights, no crowed control due to the set up and plenty of unpleasant behavior with no need of further details. To avoid all that and create a pleasant WOW! type of event that I know for sure the organizers are doing their best to keep it that way like last year for example (Congratulations by the Way!!)

I suggest finding a way to have this 2 to 3 room setup, those rooms has to be of a big space to accommodate a large number of people with ease. At least one of the rooms has to be of a larger area to be like the main room. Just to make it clear that room has to be so big that if the people of the other 2 rooms come out to the main room, everyone should fit in that main room. The convention center had that setup and it seemed to have successfully accommodated everyone last year. Each room should have all the works including water stations, which I emphasize, PLEASE make sure to have plenty of water and paper cups. It was hard to see people having to pick up used cups from the floor to keep hydrated and avoiding passing out and yes it happened last year. Those water stations should have some type of glowing marks or arrows that anyone can see for easy access. Bathroom also has to be accessible; I am sure the Hilton ballroom has to have being designed with that in mind.

My other suggestions are to please make sure that each room is equipped with plenty of light effects in that way the main lights would be completely off. It has been one of the complaints of many last year that the lights were On in the main room which defeated the purpose of the glow sticks and which led to making the other room saturated with people. By having a good light show in all rooms would help to have all the main lights off or if anything very very dim, believe me it makes a big difference. Sound equipment, has to have all the acoustics, (high, mids. lows, bass) last years equipment was perfect.

Crowed control is important and I know for the volunteers is probably a challenge each year because of the number of people attending, is for that reason that having 3 rooms will create an easier way to handle those groups. There should be staff at the entry location as well as inside of each room and if the room is getting to full then just do not allow for anyone else to come in until people leave. Like I said they will have 2 other rooms to go to and I really believe that there will not be need of that if the rooms are big enough.

Please look into the possibility of extending the hours by either starting earlier or going to 4 am or both. People will love the idea of being able to party for an extra 2 hours or more. The rave is one of the mayor highlights and I believe it will work perfectly for the flow of people, since they will be able to come and go and I bet it will improve a lot of issues.

Having the rooms decorated with anime theme or even staff dancers dressed like favorite anime characters dancing around the stage that would make things more interesting and enjoyable. It would even make it more amazing if somehow there could be a guest appearance from a famous Dj to perform. I know is asking for too much but if anyone of the other Dj's or the Otakon staff has contacts and the especial guest Dj is in town and decides to give at least 15 minutes of their time that would be awesome! Just imagine for example that Deadmau5 can show up to play on the main room for a few minutes that would mean a lot.

Last, I agree with another comment earlier that on Sunday there should be a mini 2 hour closing after party Dance, with all the staff and any special guests that would like to participate that would be a great way to thank everyone

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In saving space on this thread I replied to Djdanyg's private message to me.

To Djdanyg and everyong - Thank you for the very thoughtful posts and keep them coming. I will be meeting with my fellow staffers soon for our April meeting and already have a stack of printouts to go over with them so keep the good ideas coming in. I'm not going anywhere so let me hear your voice. Now is the time since the closer it gets to con the more insane our(Staffers) schedules get.

As always tell your friends, tell your crew(BBoys this means YOU!), send emails to DJ's you want to show up, and do whatever you can to make this years Otakon/Rave the best one ever! We still have time to get the word out and I'd love to see the rave double in size in years to come.

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Thank you guys for all of your info and responses but I was just informed that the Dance/Rave will NOT be moving this year.

I repeat that it will NOT be moving this year and will be in its usual location at the Camden Lobby.

Honestly we just ran out of time and the contracts had to be finalized.

Even though the idea of a move has been tabled for this year it is still possible for Next Year. So PLEASE keep sending in your ideas (pros/cons) and lets keep this channel of information open.

As always if you guys want to say anything about the Dance or have questions/concerns please don't be afraid to send me a private message. I'm usually fast to respond.

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What are the chances of the lights being OFF this year?

Becuz lights being on.. that's kinda lame.. >_>

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What are the chances of the lights being OFF this year?

Becuz lights being on.. that's kinda lame.. >_>

We ask every year for them to be turned off and they turn them to "as low as possible". I believe its part of being a public building and such that they have to have a minimum level of light for the hallways. It might also be due to fire codes.

Trust me we think its lame as well but must go with whatever the facility mandates. If it was a private facility we were having the dance at then we would have more freedom.

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i just got thru hosting a club rave at my college which we held a place alot like the BCC i like the idea of the rave staying at the BCC because a hotel ball room sounds more like a place for a prom, and also theres the issue of late night pannels going on that you want to go see and now we would have to worry about walking around outside the convention late at night (going back and fourth between the convention and the rave) which im not too keen on because walking back to my hotel last year we were bugged by a street guy the cops were after who was involved in a stabbing (his arm all bloody and everything) granted youll run into that kind of thing even walking to your OWN hotel from the BCC but at that time of night i like to stay in the inner harbor or BCC.

when we threw our rave we had many rooms, like 5. one for happy hard core, trance, house, drum and base etc...we did use the "ball room" for our rave headliners, maybe otakon could do that, have the headline DJ's in the hotel ball room and use the BCC room for other genres of Electronic music? maybe even that little room?

about the light issue at the BCC raves, cant we put up some kind of easy tear down blinds?

i kind of liked the windows tho because there was a baseball game across the street during the rave and i got to see fireworks and dance! ^.^ now that was fun!

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The rave should stay in the convention center.

Except for the people staying at the Hilton, you would have people walking back to their hotels from the Hilton at various hours of the early morning and in smaller groups than what we have now.

Not that the Inner Harbour is a dangerous area, but why add to that danger? What are the benefits of moving the rave? (lights out, later hours, more rooms) these have all been mentioned but none have been confirmed.

Also, I like the feel of the convention center after midnight with the very walls pulsing to the beat of the rave :)

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Sorry guys but like I said in the original post I cannot give you specifics or details. I can't say that it would be more this or that cause we have not seen the space and do not know. We just wanted your opinion and any ideas for/against that you could think of.

Also we would be utilizing the skywalk that connects the BCC to the Hilton so you wouldn't need to be walking on the main streets of Baltimore to get to the rave if that is your concern. As far as leaving after the rave is over it would be no difference leaving the Hilton from the rave than from the BCC. Same ending time and same number of people(minus those staying at the Hilton) just 1 block over.

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Sorry we cannot alter the lighting as it is fire code. This means that it would be illegal and we would be heavily fined. No organization is going to take that sort of risk just to attempt to achieve a better lighting effect.

Regarding the addition of more stages: We currently don't have the space/equipment budget for that. It would require multiple setups and a ton more space for the acoustics to be correct (which we like to keep at a high quality level). We just don't have the space in our budget for that sort of thing......unless we get a lot more members to come through our doors year after year.

Trust me when I say that if we double our size in members that the rave itself will grow. To this end I ask you guys to start telling your friends who have never been to Otakon before to save up a few bucks and get down to Baltimore for a great time. Tell them about the fun you have and how exciting the rave can be! Send them to the forums for posts on how to save money at the con and work out travel/hotels w/ them. The more people we get, the bigger out budget, the more cool stuff that you guys suggest gets done. Remember that this is a convention run by fans for fans. I personally want the rave to be as big as the dealers room one day but I can't do that w/o your help.

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I support whatever it takes to make the rave last longer. A rave that ends at 1:30 is too short when the standard at most cons is around 2:30 to 3:00 am while others lasting waywards past that.

That was my only gripe with Otakon last year, the rave ended before it even felt like it started. I would suggest possibly talking to the Hyatt in regards to their space of ballrooms, as they're connected to the convention center through a walkway as well and seem to have a great large ballroom right by the doors that lead to the convention center.

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Hotel-based cons have options we do not when it comes to space. The Otakon dance has a much larger number of people to manage and for various practical reasons we need to be kicking folks out of the BCC by 2am. Heck, we kick most of our staff out by then. As the guy who, for two years running, was the last one out of the BCC at night (at 330 or 4am), I don't see it being particularly easy to extend that -- especially when most of the city shuts down at 2am. While some venues can stay open, we may well be up against city ordinances and noise rules. I'm sure that our planners will *ask* the Hilton about what's possible, but don't hold your breath for a much later thing.

Remember, there's a TON of stuff that has to happen overnight, too -- cleanup most notably. Dance gets pretty messy, and pretty stinky too, and it needs time to air out, because that space must be ready for use the next morning by 8:45am.

I am curious, though: Which cons run their dance party til 3am?

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