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windseeker

'White Civil Rights Rally' application approved for DC

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I think this is concern-worthy:

 

'White Civil Rights Rally' application approved for DC

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/white-civil-rights-rally-application-approved-for-dc/65-565729881

It looks like there will be a "Unite the Right" rally in Lafayette Park on August 11 & 12. Yes, this is the same group that ran the rally in Charlottesville where Heather Heyer was killed.

Will most likely affect traffic and more...

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13 minutes ago, windseeker said:

I think this is concern-worthy:

 

'White Civil Rights Rally' application approved for DC

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/white-civil-rights-rally-application-approved-for-dc/65-565729881

It looks like there will be a "Unite the Right" rally in Lafayette Park on August 11 & 12. Yes, this is the same group that ran the rally in Charlottesville where Heather Heyer was killed.

Will most likely affect traffic and more...

The same report says they don't have a permit yet, and I hope they don't either.  That said, the park is on the north side of the White House, and it could lead to disruptions yes.  I don't think they're going to allow it though.

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Just heard about this. How awful that this is planned as the same weekend. Is there anyone we can contact asking them not to hold this rally . 

 

Maybe they wont care but maybe if a bunch of Otakon attendees talk about our con and that there will be children and many ppl coming out of state they will at least rethink having it this weekend if at all. 

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Can’t fathom them remotely getting a permit that close to the White House.  No way the city or government officials would allow that.  Furthermore the secret service would be over them like bears to honey if they were to assemble there.  

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Regretfully, this disgusting rally has received an approved permit: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/393366-charlottesville-organizer-plans-white-civil-rights-rally-in-dc

 

We can only hope that security will be on top of all this and that they won't spread towards the convention center. I just know that this group would prey on cosplayers, and I especially fear for the safety of PoC attendees...

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I think it’s worth keeping in mind from a safety perspective that this is going on.

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15 hours ago, Msprintz said:

Can’t fathom them remotely getting a permit that close to the White House.  No way the city or government officials would allow that.  Furthermore the secret service would be over them like bears to honey if they were to assemble there.  

It's been approved

https://apnews.com/3a73a4d640814cd1a39649ffddc8ac98?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=APSouthRegion

Edit: Here's Otakon's statement.

 

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16 hours ago, Msprintz said:

Can’t fathom them remotely getting a permit that close to the White House.  No way the city or government officials would allow that.  Furthermore the secret service would be over them like bears to honey if they were to assemble there.  

I think you're forgetting who we currently have in the white house...anyways, like others have said, the permit got approved.

16 hours ago, Kirarakim said:

Just heard about this. How awful that this is planned as the same weekend. Is there anyone we can contact asking them not to hold this rally . 

 

Maybe they wont care but maybe if a bunch of Otakon attendees talk about our con and that there will be children and many ppl coming out of state they will at least rethink having it this weekend if at all. 

I don't really think a bunch of nazis are going to care about kids or people from out of state.

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3 hours ago, windseeker said:

I think you're forgetting who we currently have in the white house...anyways, like others have said, the permit got approved.

I don't really think a bunch of nazis are going to care about kids or people from out of state.

I didn’t mean ask the Nazis obviously I meant alert the National Park Service or anyone who is in charge of granting them a permit. 

And has the permit got approved from what I understand only the application has not the permit. 

 

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Well I don’t know if it will do any good (probably not) but I sent an email to the NPS using this website citing my concerns about this event in relation to Otakon. I mentioned the large attendance, many people coming from afar, and guests from Japan & S. Korea. Also mentioned children & teenagers attend Otakon. I also mentioned people afraid for their safety based on events in North Carolina. 

https://www.nps.gov/nama/planyourvisit/permitsandreservations.htm

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4 hours ago, Kirarakim said:

Well I don’t know if it will do any good (probably not) but I sent an email to the NPS using this website citing my concerns about this event in relation to Otakon. I mentioned the large attendance, many people coming from afar, and guests from Japan & S. Korea. Also mentioned children & teenagers attend Otakon. I also mentioned people afraid for their safety based on events in North Carolina. 

https://www.nps.gov/nama/planyourvisit/permitsandreservations.htm

That's exactly what I did two hours ago (with someone beating me to the punch in terms of mentioning this on the board).

As the NPS is currently evaluating the situation to determine whether the rally will even happen or not, con-goers should use this period to write to them explaining that having this rally happen could threaten the safety of an event that not only was booked for that weekend well in advance, but is also attended by families.

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So should I cancel my hotel because of this rally because if it happens I know my family won’t want me to come down to that area or is otakon going to reschedule? Because thinking about it I’m kinda worried about going now 

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So should I cancel my hotel because of this rally because if it happens I know my family won’t want me to come down to that area or is otakon going to reschedule? Because thinking about it I’m kinda worried about going now 
You should do what you feel is safe and right for your own self interest. I am not canceling myself, I look forward to this too much over the year to let a bunch of ignorant people affect how I live my life.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

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11 hours ago, LegendaryBroli said:

So should I cancel my hotel because of this rally because if it happens I know my family won’t want me to come down to that area or is otakon going to reschedule? Because thinking about it I’m kinda worried about going now 

Well Otakon certainly can't reschedule their convention..

 

The best thing you can do is continue to attend - these people would love nothing more than for their fear mongering and aggression to keep people from doing what they love... so let's prove them wrong. The best thing you can do is stay close to the convention center and travel in groups, where possible. I'm certain if you're alone that you can ask a group to let you stick close to them if you feel unsafe.

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Well I got an email back from the NPS and while it’s nice they responded they pretty much ignored my entire issue about people being concerned for their safety and just went on and on about Free Speech & the First Amendment. Although the email did briefly mention public safety it didn’t alleviate my concerns in light of the extreme violence (and one girl’s death) that happened at this “peaceful” meeting last year in NC where the group was also just supposedly exercising their free speech rights. 

 

They also confirmed a permit has not been issued yet but issuing the permit has nothing to do with the content of the meeting and it sounds like as long as they follow proper procedures the permit will be granted. At least that was the gist of the Email.

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35 minutes ago, Kirarakim said:

Well I got an email back from the NPS and while it’s nice they responded they pretty much ignored my entire issue about people being concerned for their safety and just went on and on about Free Speech & the First Amendment. Although the email did briefly mention public safety it didn’t alleviate my concerns in light of the extreme violence (and one girl’s death) that happened at this “peaceful” meeting last year in NC where the group was also just supposedly exercising their free speech rights. 

 

They also confirmed a permit has not been issued yet but issuing the permit has nothing to do with the content of the meeting and it sounds like as long as they follow proper procedures the permit will be granted. At least that was the gist of the Email.

Yeah I got the same thing. Feels like they aren't taking any of it seriously. I know Otakon is trying their best though. But me and my friends are gonna be like glue this year

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12 hours ago, LegendaryBroli said:

So should I cancel my hotel because of this rally because if it happens I know my family won’t want me to come down to that area or is otakon going to reschedule? Because thinking about it I’m kinda worried about going now 

Well they're not going to reschedule, given that you have to reserve the convention center and make deals with hotels waaaay in advance and it'll be a logistical nightmare, plus people would have to reschedule time off from work and deal with flight/hotel/parking reservation cancellations.

I'm not canceling myself, I intend to have a great time. 

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As someone said, Otakon does not have the ability to reschedule the convention but we can let you know that our Convention Leadership is on top of this and are closely monitoring the situation as it continues to develop. The safety of our members is a priority to us and we certainly want you to be able to enjoy the convention and time with your family and friends.  

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I'm someone who feels the white supremacists rank right down there with flat-earthers when it comes to reality, but I don't understand all the people here who said the permit wouldn't get approved. As long as they follow proper procedure, their First Amendment rights to Free Speech are just as valid as ours. As long as they file the paperwork, the city pretty much HAS to approve it unless some other group had already designated that location and that weekend. About all the city can do is restrict what the demonstration boundaries at the location are.

Were the city to deny the application, the lawsuits on suppression of free speech would come fast and furious.

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I'm not gonna let some white supremacists ruin my fun. With this literally taking place across the street from the white house, I expect there to be A LOT of security present there. As long as you don't wander near the rally, you probably won't even realize it's going on.

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It still is possible for the rally to be canceled due to safety concerns, it's happened before to a similar group in Texas.

If it does happen, it's gonna be more important to make sure people that would otherwise be unaware know whats going on.

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12 hours ago, Kirarakim said:

Well I got an email back from the NPS and while it’s nice they responded they pretty much ignored my entire issue about people being concerned for their safety and just went on and on about Free Speech & the First Amendment. Although the email did briefly mention public safety it didn’t alleviate my concerns in light of the extreme violence (and one girl’s death) that happened at this “peaceful” meeting last year in NC where the group was also just supposedly exercising their free speech rights. 

 

They also confirmed a permit has not been issued yet but issuing the permit has nothing to do with the content of the meeting and it sounds like as long as they follow proper procedures the permit will be granted. At least that was the gist of the Email.

Given how I got the same letter as well, it's pretty obvious that they are basically sending "form letters" to those who show concern about the rally affecting the convention, to which I wrote back explaining not only the concerns that Otakon attendees have with this rally (i.e. the white supremacy supporters, the fatal incident) but also explained that while I understand that they have the right to protest, it would be better to move the rally further away from the convention center to avoid any possible conflict.

Hopefully, the NPS will come to realize that there is a legit concern about the safety and well-being of those people attending a convention a mile away and do something to prevent what could be an ugly incident.

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Someone told me the permit only gets them police escorts that the don't technically need the permit to hold the rally  that in the bill of rights it allows you to peaceful protesting and such

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If they're assembling in a public place, being peaceful about it and not harming or harassing anyone, yes that should be correct.

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7 hours ago, razisgosu said:

If they're assembling in a public place, being peaceful about it and not harming or harassing anyone, yes that should be correct.

"Peaceful" and "nazis" don't belong in the same sentence.

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4 hours ago, windseeker said:

"Peaceful" and "nazis" don't belong in the same sentence.

Its a good thing we aren't talking about nazis then. 

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2 hours ago, razisgosu said:

Its a good thing we aren't talking about nazis then. 

First of all they are Neo-Nazi's so yes we are. Second of all they have killed one and injured several last time they "peacefully" protested that is why people are concerned because these people are prone to violence.

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2 hours ago, razisgosu said:

Its a good thing we aren't talking about nazis then. 

Yeah, just people waving nazi flags and sporting swastikas. Nothing nazi-like about them at all :rolleyes:

 

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2 hours ago, Ashourii said:

First of all they are Neo-Nazi's so yes we are. Second of all they have killed one and injured several last time they "peacefully" protested that is why people are concerned because these people are prone to violence.

If we're just talking about being "prone to violence", BOTH sides of the issue use that as a tool as evidenced by the assault convictions after Charlottesville. The anti-Nazi faction justifies their violence due to, "We're fighting Naziism, so our violence is righteous", but violence is violence no matter HOW righteous someone feels when perpetrating it.

Yes, I am very disturbed that this post sounds very similar to the excuse Trump gave at the time, but in my case I am criticizing both sides rather than trying to excuse one side because the other side used violence as well.

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*

Editing

I don't wanna argue with people anymore. I'm just worried for my friends Otakon was always like a second home to me. I don't want to see them ruin something that has brought my friends together for years. Plus I have a young niece who i'm bringing this year who her safety is everything to me. I'm scared of what they could do. 

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On 6/23/2018 at 8:34 PM, Fadamor said:

If we're just talking about being "prone to violence", BOTH sides of the issue use that as a tool as evidenced by the assault convictions after Charlottesville. The anti-Nazi faction justifies their violence due to, "We're fighting Naziism, so our violence is righteous", but violence is violence no matter HOW righteous someone feels when perpetrating it.

Yes, I am very disturbed that this post sounds very similar to the excuse Trump gave at the time, but in my case I am criticizing both sides rather than trying to excuse one side because the other side used violence as well.

Apply that logic to WWII and see how flimsy it is.

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22 hours ago, razisgosu said:

Basically my point. Leave em alone. Stay away and you'll be fine.

The concern is of how those who attend the rally will scatter later. I've heard people worried about taking the metro or encountering them while walking. Plenty of Otakon attendees are people that could be targeted by rally attendees (POC's, LGBT, etc).

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30 minutes ago, windseeker said:

The concern is of how those who attend the rally will scatter later. I've heard people worried about taking the metro or encountering them while walking. Plenty of Otakon attendees are people that could be targeted by rally attendees (POC's, LGBT, etc).

Thing is I’m betting police will be everywhere, I mean dc is pretty much a different ballgame then Charlottesville.

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3 hours ago, windseeker said:

Apply that logic to WWII and see how flimsy it is.

Not flimsy at all. There were atrocities committed by both sides in WWII. Are you saying the ones committed by the Allies are somehow less egregious? Tell that to the men, women, and children boiled alive in the super-heated canals of Tokyo when they dove in trying to escape the firestorm perpetrated by the U.S. Bomber Command. There was no military target, the target was the civilian population of the city. (Ask yourself, "If they're bombing the capital of the enemy, why were the bomber crews under specific orders NOT to attack the Emperor's Palace - a legitimate military target?") ~100,00 dead and ~1,000,000 injured in one night's firebombing raid. Tell that to the men, women, and children of Dresden, Germany on the night of February 13 - 14, 1945 when for 24 continuous minutes the RAF dropped 1186 tons of incendiaries into the center of the city. There was no military target, the target was the civilian population of the city. The official RAF target was, "City Area". ~25,000 dead

"Flimsy"? More like WWII strengthens my argument ten-fold.

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3 hours ago, LegendaryBroli said:

Thing is I’m betting police will be everywhere, I mean dc is pretty much a different ballgame then Charlottesville.

Living near DC I agree with that overall, but I also don't blame people for being apprehensive. 

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1 hour ago, Fadamor said:

Not flimsy at all. There were atrocities committed by both sides in WWII. Are you saying the ones committed by the Allies are somehow less egregious? Tell that to the men, women, and children boiled alive in the super-heated canals of Tokyo when they dove in trying to escape the firestorm perpetrated by the U.S. Bomber Command. There was no military target, the target was the civilian population of the city. (Ask yourself, "If they're bombing the capital of the enemy, why were the bomber crews under specific orders NOT to attack the Emperor's Palace - a legitimate military target?") ~100,00 dead and ~1,000,000 injured in one night's firebombing raid. Tell that to the men, women, and children of Dresden, Germany on the night of February 13 - 14, 1945 when for 24 continuous minutes the RAF dropped 1186 tons of incendiaries into the center of the city. There was no military target, the target was the civilian population of the city. The official RAF target was, "City Area". ~25,000 dead

"Flimsy"? More like WWII strengthens my argument ten-fold.

LOL...nice Whataboutism. This is even flimsier than your first attempt. Did you miss the part where we were talking about fighting the Nazis and not the Pacific Theater? Should I go into a diatribe about the Rape of Nanking, comfort women, Unit  731, etc? I'm not sure how familiar you are with war, but the way warfare was conducted at the time it was pretty impossible to avoid civilian casualties, especially in Japan where industries and military installations were in proximity to civilian areas. There's actually a fairly simple answer to your question there - the emperor wasn't really in charge of the war! He was a figurehead and killing him wouldn't have ended the war and would have likely become a MAJOR rallying point for the Japanese population. Keeping Hirohito alive was strategic for the US, he was critical to get the fighting to stop in the end. As for Dresden, it was a major rail transport and communication centre, housing 110 factories (including poison gas, anti-aircraft,  and field gun factories) and 50,000 workers in support of the German war effort. That made it a strategic target. 

And once again you conveniently leave out how the NAZIS and their Axis allies were the aggressors in the war. The civilian deaths are the faults of their governments, plain and simple. If violence should have been left out of the equation, please enlighten us as to how the Nazis should have been dealt with. 

Also, please note that using the bombing of Dresden to try and create a moral equivalency between the Allies and Axis powers is a tactic used by Holocaust deniers and pro-Nazi individuals like David Irving....you might not want to link yourself to that. 

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3 hours ago, windseeker said:

LOL...nice Whataboutism.

LOL... YOU were the one who brought up "What about WWII", so right back at ya.

I see you missed my point entirely. I wasn't trying to make a moral equivalency. I was making an IMmoral equivalency. Both sides committed wartime atrocities aimed directly at civilian populations with the only objective being to create terror amongst the civilians.

In 1932, Japan shelled the City of Shanghai from naval ships, in violation of the 1st Article of the Hague Convention adopted in 1909. In 1935 Mussolini's Air Force dropped Mustard Gas bombs on Ethiopia. In 1937, Japan AGAIN indiscriminately attacked the City of Shanghai. The Japanese also committed the "Rape of Nanking" in 1937 and while there WAS a Chinese military force there, the indiscriminate attacks on civilians by the Japanese are well documented. In 1939, Nazi Germany bombed a Spanish town named Guernica - killing ~1650. The town had no military facilities, just townspeople. Germany also conducted V1 and V2 bombing attacks on England with no way to aim them short of sending them off in a certain direction. There was no military objective - only the goal of keeping the populace running for shelters.

In all those cases, the target was the civilian population, not a military objective. Nations around the world, including the U.S. and Britain, soundly condemned these as acts of barbarism. In a September 1, 1939 appeal "To the Governments of France, Germany, Italy, Poland and his Britannic Majesty", President Franklin D. Roosevelt opined:

Quote

 

The ruthless bombing from the air of unfortified centers of population during the course of hostilities which have raged in various quarters of the earth during the past few years, which has resulted in the maiming and the death of thousands of defenseless men, women, and children, has sickened the hearts of every civilized man and woman, and has profoundly shocked the conscience of humanity.

If resort is had to this form of inhuman barbarism during the period of the tragic conflagration with which the world is now confronted, hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings who have no responsibility for, and who are not even remotely participating in. the hostilities which have now broken out, will lose their lives. I am therefore addressing this urgent appeal to every government which may be engaged in hostilities publicly to affirm its determination that its armed forces shall in no event, and under no circumstances, undertake the bombardment from the air of civilian populations or of unfortified cities, upon the understanding that these same rules will be scrupulously observed by all of their opponents. I request an immediate reply.

 

The British, the French, and even Germany replied that they would comply. In 1940, Winston Churchill (then serving as First Lord of the Admiralty) denounced the bombing of civilians as "a new and odious form of attack."
(Excerpted from "Cultures of War: Pearl Harbor, Hiroshima, 9-11, Iraq" pps 159-160 by John W. Dower, ©2010, ISBN 978-0-393-34068-6)

This seems good! We're holding the moral high-ground here. Now flash-forward a mere three years... My, how things have changed!

In 1943 the U.S. Military began constructing civilian residences, NOT INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS, identical in construction and typical spacing to the ones used by everyday people in Japan and Germany. These mock residences - complete with all typical furniture - were built at the Dugway Proving Ground in the Utah desert. The purpose of these mock residences was to test out the best methods for creating a firestorm using incendiary bombs. When a bombing run finished, the results were tabulated, the buildings re-built, and another run was planned and executed. In essence, the U.S. military was perfecting the way to kill massive amounts of CIVILIANS in two specific geographical regions with the least amount of bombs. So much for Roosevelt's appeal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dugway_Proving_Ground#History

The February 14 1945 Dresden Firebombing was just one day out of eight during the war that targeted Dresden, but the target the day of the firebombing was the entire "city area" rather than most of the other days when the targets were the railway marshaling yards - a legitimate military target. (The outlier day specifically targeted the "industrial area" - also a legitimate military target.) So seven days were spent on legitimate military targets in Dresden using mostly precision (well, "precision" for the era) bombing techniques, while one day used primarily incendiary bombs and the target was to blanket the whole city area. Winston Churchill called the Dresden Firebombing by his RAF an "act of terror", to which his Air Marshall strongly objected and Churchill subsequently retracted the assertion. When your own Prime Minister sees the elephant in the room...

 

 

 

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The important thing is that people not panic. Find something fun to do in the con Saturday afternoon. Don't engage them. Don't give them the satisfaction. Let Otakorp, MPD, Metro Transit Police and others keep you safe.

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I think some people are imagining a massive mob of men marching everywhere through DC who are going to harass everyone and anyone in their wake. I highly doubt it's going to be an issue after last year. Nevertheless, I know it's still a justified concern for certain groups like POC. Hopefully, nothing will come of it. DC is a pretty secure city, and anytime a major city has major events going on they tend to amp up police monitoring the area. Chances are most of us will not even see them, much less the chance to be harassed by them. These are probably men who feel empowered in numbers, but outside of their fellow racists company, they're no more powerful than the rest of us, so they probably won't say or do anything. My tip to everyone is simply to not engage if you do happen to run into these guys. Don't stare at them. Don't say anything to them, even if they say something to you. Especially do not touch them. Pretend they're not there.

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I definitely understand everyone's fears and concerns about the rally.  There've been similar times I was on the subway near an event like that, and nothing ever happened.  I'd see some people from those events waiting for the subway train, but nothing happened, so it ended up I was worried for nothing.  I know that doesn't mean everything's peachy-keen all the time.  But DC is a big place.  In all probability, no one will encounter any of the civil rights people, unless you specifically go to Lafayette Park and the hotels and places surrounding that area.  Except maybe on the subway, like others here have said.

 

With Otakon filling all of the hotels nearby (I think), the area around the WEWCC should probably be free of any of the rally people.  Though it's nice to know Otakon staff are aware of this (and maybe will hire more security, if they can, for Otakon?).  Like others here have mentioned, it's a good guess there'll be much more of a police presence around the rally.  It'd be really surprising if they didn't, considering what's happened at their other rallies and the news.

 

For riding the subway, if you feel uneasy about all this, just ride the first car in the train where the conductor is.  If something illegal's gonna happen, it probably won't be in the part of the train where the conductor is.  And if anything does happen, just yell/scream loud enough and the conductor will hear you.

 

There's been just a few times I've left the subway car I was in and walked into the next one, because of something that irked me about some passengers (usually just people acting strangely, or kids running/jumping most everywhere), but that's very few times considering I've been riding the subway since 1986.  Just trying to give people a perspective.  And similarly to what Potchari said, even if someone does something to you where you're totally justified in yelling or cursing (or other stuff) back at them, just remember they're trying to get on your nerves, they're trying to get you angry, so please fight your instincts and just move to another car in the train.  Don't let them ruin your day just because they're a*******.  (Of course, it usually takes about half a day of yelling at them in my mind, thinking of the perfect thing I could have said, before my mind settles down, but that's beside the point. :) )

 

But really, in all probability, you'll have a great time at Otakon.  And they'll be PLENTY of people around you most of the time, and most people are really helpful if you need anything.

 

So, be aware of your surroundings, but please don't let the rally overshadow your fun at Otakon.  Chances are, the rally group will be far from us.  And if you spend all weekend worried about it, and nothing bad happens, then you'll finish Otakon without having the fun you could have had.

 

 

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9 hours ago, EdKitten said:

 

For riding the subway, if you feel uneasy about all this, just ride the first car in the train where the conductor is.  If something illegal's gonna happen, it probably won't be in the part of the train where the conductor is.  And if anything does happen, just yell/scream loud enough and the conductor will hear you.

 

Just pointing out there's emergency alarms in each car and a line to the conductor.

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20 hours ago, Fadamor said:

LOL... YOU were the one who brought up "What about WWII", so right back at ya.

Not remotely the same, but you're trying hard. lol.

Quote

 

I see you missed my point entirely. I wasn't trying to make a moral equivalency. I was making an IMmoral equivalency. Both sides committed wartime atrocities aimed directly at civilian populations with the only objective being to create terror amongst the civilians.

Sure you were. And the goal of strategic bombings wasn't to "create terror among civilians" it was primarily to cripple industries and military targets. Japanese balloon bombs on the other hand...https://www.wired.com/2010/05/0505japanese-balloon-kills-oregon/

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In 1943 the U.S. Military began constructing civilian residences, NOT INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS, identical in construction and typical spacing to the ones used by everyday people in Japan and Germany. These mock residences - complete with all typical furniture - were built at the Dugway Proving Ground in the Utah desert. The purpose of these mock residences was to test out the best methods for creating a firestorm using incendiary bombs. When a bombing run finished, the results were tabulated, the buildings re-built, and another run was planned and executed. In essence, the U.S. military was perfecting the way to kill massive amounts of CIVILIANS in two specific geographical regions with the least amount of bombs. So much for Roosevelt's appeal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dugway_Proving_Ground#History

So...you take issue with testing how incendiaries and other bombs will work? They were looking to take out cities, and were studying how to effectively do it. Makes sense in the context of a world war where avoiding civilian casualties is next to impossible. Once again you fail to offer an alternative to using violence in a world war scenario. All you have so far are appeals to emotion (argumentum ad passiones), which is a pretty weak logical fallacy to throw out. Its easy to sit cushy behind a computer screen and thumb your nose with the knowledge of hindsight brings .

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The February 14 1945 Dresden Firebombing was just one day out of eight during the war that targeted Dresden, but the target the day of the firebombing was the entire "city area" rather than most of the other days when the targets were the railway marshaling yards - a legitimate military target. (The outlier day specifically targeted the "industrial area" - also a legitimate military target.) So seven days were spent on legitimate military targets in Dresden using mostly precision (well, "precision" for the era) bombing techniques, while one day used primarily incendiary bombs and the target was to blanket the whole city area. Winston Churchill called the Dresden Firebombing by his RAF an "act of terror", to which his Air Marshall strongly objected and Churchill subsequently retracted the assertion. When your own Prime Minister sees the elephant in the room...

Once again, you offer no real alternatives or arguments not based in emotion.

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2 hours ago, windseeker said:

Just pointing out there's emergency alarms in each car and a line to the conductor.

 

You're right!  I forgot about those emergency alarms.  Thanks for posting this.

 

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I've got a little story from Otakon 2014 that I think might be relevant.

I was walking back to my hotel when I passed by two young looking cosplayers talking to this old guy; probably a local or something. They looked kinda uncomfortable so I eventually just stopped to watch and make sure they were okay.

While watching other congoers would ask me if I was okay. I'd explain what was going on, and soon enough there was a group of 7-10 people just watching to make these two were ok and just wondering if we needed to jump in or anything.

Eventually the old dude moved closer to the two cosplayers and they stepped back in response. At that point one of us just straight up went to them and asked if they were okay. They reassured they were ok and we all continued where were going.

I think for this year that's going to have to be the mentality we all have to have more than ever: just plain looking out for each other. Be ready to pull the 'Oh my God you're my favorite character can I have a hug?' or something similar card if you need to if someone looks like. Get the buddy system going. 

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Very interesting with this turn of events.

     Here's something that no one has mentioned yet (unless I completely missed it): There's a good chance that some of these marchers are going to stay at some of the very same hotels that the Otakon attendees are staying.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Daniel Perales said:

Here's something that no one has mentioned yet (unless I completely missed it): There's a good chance that some of these marchers are going to stay at some of the very same hotels that the Otakon attendees are staying.

I ended up making a "heads up" post on tumblr about all this, and that was something I included. With any luck, Otakon will take up enough hotel space that it will be difficult for the Rally goers to find any single hotel to stay at in our usual radius en masse or closer to actual Otakon. That said, I had recommended to people that they call their hotels to find out if they're providing lodging to Rally goers. You may not be able to apply any pressure of "If you do, then consider my business gone!", but certainly people have a right to know if they're about to share space with people potentially prone to verbal or physical violence against certain groups. I recommended that people ask their hotels what measures they plan to take to ensure safety and peace of mind. They have that responsibility to you as a guest.

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