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Aresef

'Far From Perfect': Fans Recount Unwanted Affection from Voice Actor Vic Mignogna

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My sibling and I had an awfully awkward encounter with Vic that while not nearly as bad as some of the accusations kind of definitely made me believe this stuff ever since I started hearing it. And given the stuff I've heard before this, and with especially scary stories like Jessie Pridemore's, I'm glad to see the anime community largely supporting those who have come forward, including a number of other voice actors either directly voicing support or showing support by liking those posts or the posts of people who have been harmed by Vic in some way. Like there's some pushback, particularly from the Gamergate-adjacent crowd or diehard Vic fans who could never believe such things, but largely it's not as bad as I think it could've been. 

Like.... there's something like 100+ accusations or accounts, the vast majority coming from people unrelated to each other, the chances of them all or even mostly all being false is pretty low. So even if you've only had good experiences with him, keep that in mind.

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12 hours ago, Tachibana said:

My sibling and I had an awfully awkward encounter with Vic that while not nearly as bad as some of the accusations kind of definitely made me believe this stuff ever since I started hearing it. And given the stuff I've heard before this, and with especially scary stories like Jessie Pridemore's, I'm glad to see the anime community largely supporting those who have come forward, including a number of other voice actors either directly voicing support or showing support by liking those posts or the posts of people who have been harmed by Vic in some way. Like there's some pushback, particularly from the Gamergate-adjacent crowd or diehard Vic fans who could never believe such things, but largely it's not as bad as I think it could've been. 

Like.... there's something like 100+ accusations or accounts, the vast majority coming from people unrelated to each other, the chances of them all or even mostly all being false is pretty low. So even if you've only had good experiences with him, keep that in mind.

The unnamed actor in Pridemore's story named himself on Twitter--nobody asked him to do that--and an industry insider came forward with what he knew about that night. (I'd name both individuals, but I don't want to run afoul of the mods or something.) The public sphere is a terrible place to have complex discussions about consent and propriety, but it may be the only place where it'll happen in these cases. It's high time that we as congoers (broadly, not just Ota) talk about and expose bad behavior in our community.

Vic has an army of sycophants. They've even taken the step of limiting access to his convention schedule... which anybody can see on animecons.com anyway. I think the onus on the rest of us to be the adults in the room. And speaking of adults, consensual or not, anybody who acts the way Vic does around girls and women young enough to be his daughter ought to raise red flags no matter what other stories are out there.

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this isnt surprising at all every single culture,fandom etc has predators in it.  I remember hearing whispers and rumors 10+ years ago about vic.  I really hope some cons grow a pair and cancel his appearances.   i fully support clearing out the trash at cons to make it a safer environment for the future of our fandom.  and that is always a really messy business but if i have a daughter and she can cosplay without having to need me play security let it be as messy as it needs to be.

  

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54 minutes ago, Something Clever said:

this isnt surprising at all every single culture,fandom etc has predators in it.  I remember hearing whispers and rumors 10+ years ago about vic.  I really hope some cons grow a pair and cancel his appearances.   i fully support clearing out the trash at cons to make it a safer environment for the future of our fandom.  and that is always a really messy business but if i have a daughter and she can cosplay without having to need me play security let it be as messy as it needs to be.

  

In the last few days, he's been canceled by Anime NYC, Kameha Con UK, Raleigh Supercon, Florida Supercon, Rangerstop & Pop Con, Kameha Con, Kawaii Kon and Kami-Kon. Ancient City Con and Anime Milwaukee mutually agreed with Vic to cancel. He was at Bak-Anime over the weekend and it was super awkward. He made a crocodile-tear statement in his Edward Elric register. Anime Matsuri is the only upcoming con that hasn't canceled him, but the person running that con has his own problems, let's say.

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20 minutes ago, Aresef said:

In the last few days, he's been canceled by Anime NYC, Kameha Con UK, Raleigh Supercon, Florida Supercon, Rangerstop & Pop Con, Kameha Con, Kawaii Kon and Kami-Kon. Ancient City Con and Anime Milwaukee mutually agreed with Vic to cancel. He was at Bak-Anime over the weekend and it was super awkward. He made a crocodile-tear statement in his Edward Elric register. Anime Matsuri is the only upcoming con that hasn't canceled him, but the person running that con has his own problems, let's say.

well thats really good to hear and that apology is absolute bs.  i was afraid due to the nature of anime they would shrug this off due to him being a draw.  But really glad to see the predators running out of places to hide from the light.  as much fallout as this will cause i hope it starts a trend and we get as many of these people out in open.  especially since they wield a scary amount of power with young people in the anime scene.

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10 minutes ago, Something Clever said:

well thats really good to hear and that apology is absolute bs.  i was afraid due to the nature of anime they would shrug this off due to him being a draw.  But really glad to see the predators running out of places to hide from the light.  as much fallout as this will cause i hope it starts a trend and we get as many of these people out in open.  especially since they wield a scary amount of power with young people in the anime scene.

Inasmuch as his niche celebrity gives him power, he has allegedly abused it. I've also heard from con staffers--not necessarily at Otakon--that he's a bit of a pain to work with. Not going to go into details, since I don't want people to work backwards to figure out where these things happened.

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Please note that this response is IN NO WAY OFFICIAL, and that I do not speak for Otakon on this matter at all. This is just me, and I've said some of this publicly but would prefer it not be shared.  (Though I know the leadership of Otakon is working behind the scenes to address these concerns.)

This whole thing is incredibly disappointing. Both personally and professionally.   These are people I know, or at least I thought I did.  (I have even been Vic's handler at our Vegas show, and never had reason to believe the rumors about misconduct.)

My personal take, as I've expressed elsewhere, is that this is just one huge mess with no wins for anyone.  

Like many in similar roles, I find myself forced to re-evaluate people I've known for 10-15 years (because I have known Vic, Todd, and Jessie that long). The broad community is reacting in various ways, but the big fear everyone has is: did i miss something? did I unknowingly allow something bad to happen? Is this a case of perception or lies? Did someone avoid saying something because they assumed I'd take the guest's side?  

I will say that I would never bring ANY guest for whom credible accusations of improper conduct had reached my ears. Nor would I have staff working under me for whom such claims had been made.  As far as I know, nothing happened under my watch, at my event, which is all I can control. Our handlers have been pretty good at subtly preventing awkward/inappropriate moments, but of course we can't monitor folks nonstop, and we aren't responsible for their actions when we're not with them.  The biggest complaint I'd heard with any legitimacy was one of diva behavior, but that simply didn't happen at Otakon -- or if it did, it was addressed and stopped. I hope we, and I, made the right call most of the time.

You can't really make judgement calls based on rumor alone. There are always rumors, and there are always petty rivalries, and I've long felt that the best way to prevent that from being a factor is to not jump to react to such things, but instead evaluate situations based on credible reports.  But it's also true that the face *I* see, as a man and a convention runner for a large event, is not necessarily the face that others might see.  

At this point, though, public accusations have been made, and that means they must (especially in the wake of #metoo) be taken seriously.  Celebrity (at any level) shouldn't be a pass to ignore this sort of thing.  There have been other guests (not naming any names) whom I chose to avoid, or not invite back, after credible complaints. There have been staff we've dismissed for inappropriate comments, much less anything worse. There have also been numerous attempts to involve the con in other drama -- bad breakups, jealous rivalries, etc. -- which have been mostly avoided.  

That all said, I do have an issue with the spreadsheet itself, because it's not clear who's hosting it, or what controls are in place to prevent abuse.  I object to the idea of an unrestricted, anonymous spreadsheet, because it's so easy to abuse.  But if AnimeNewsNetwork or some other reputable group administered such a clearinghouse, I might be more inclined to support a similar tool for reporting.    

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Thanks for sharing your perspective, Jim. It echoes what D.C. Douglas said the other day about reevaluating his own behavior, and what Adam Sheehan reflected on regarding what happened with Todd Haberkorn and his own responsibility.

I think for me, I've come to my conclusions based on the specificity of the claims, the pattern revealed, Vic's own response and the reactions of his peers. You're not seeing these people coalesce around him. Rather, it's quite the opposite.

I've seen the spreadsheet, and I'm ambivalent. It was used to go after Justin Sevakis based on somebody's grudge. However, it also allowed people to see Vic's name and a prominent fan's name and realize they weren't alone. If not for the spreadsheet, the whispers on him may still have been whispers. But I don't think ANN should take custody of the spreadsheet or anything like that because that's not the role of a news outlet. They would risk opening themselves up to liability.

I think that however this all came to light, it's high time there was this kind of reckoning in the fandom, and time for a conversation about this behavior. It goes further than just saying the words "cosplay is not consent."

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I made my judgment based on the fact these rumors have been around vic since 2000 ish.  If he honestly cared he would have made a statement and changed his attitude way before the fact.  to say he was completely unaware is laughable but now that consequences are happening is when he suddenly starts the tearful apologies is what i call guilty to some degree.   He shouldnt be completely cast out from his primary source of income because i doubt hes rich enough to be unemployed for years.  he should lose some so at least that puts said behavior in check.  unless a far more serious crime becomes apparent with evidence.

And this is long overdue in our community for so many reasons.  The sheer amount of horror stories from women are reason enough to treat every accusation as truth. all the times ive talked to any women i know who are active as cosplayers have a list of horror stories that could fuel a blog for years. the truly sad part is even non cosplayers have just as many stories of people pretending to professional photographers or some other lie to try to get them alone.

burn it down and build it better is what we need to do for every aspect not just our culture.  The rot is too deep to expect minor actions to work at this point.

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1 hour ago, Aresef said:

Thanks for sharing your perspective, Jim. It echoes what D.C. Douglas said the other day about reevaluating his own behavior, and what Adam Sheehan reflected on regarding what happened with Todd Haberkorn and his own responsibility.

I think for me, I've come to my conclusions based on the specificity of the claims, the pattern revealed, Vic's own response and the reactions of his peers. You're not seeing these people coalesce around him. Rather, it's quite the opposite.

I've seen the spreadsheet, and I'm ambivalent. It was used to go after Justin Sevakis based on somebody's grudge. However, it also allowed people to see Vic's name and a prominent fan's name and realize they weren't alone. If not for the spreadsheet, the whispers on him may still have been whispers. But I don't think ANN should take custody of the spreadsheet or anything like that because that's not the role of a news outlet. They would risk opening themselves up to liability.

I think that however this all came to light, it's high time there was this kind of reckoning in the fandom, and time for a conversation about this behavior. It goes further than just saying the words "cosplay is not consent."

Still, it's an uncomfortable position to be in.  Watching people I know go public about someone else I know doing bad things has been sobering. Questionable judgment calls are one thing, but documented and verifiable patterns and public accusations are another.  Once you know, or have reason to doubt, things change.

For the reporting of such complaints, it doesn't have to be ANN, though it's not unusual for news organizations to provide a secure forum for whistleblowers. The point is it needs to be a trusted, known, third party. But I'm not volunteering. 

Hell, I'm still mentally drained from the #metoo panel at Gallifrey last year and the conversations afterwards.

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1 hour ago, Something Clever said:

I made my judgment based on the fact these rumors have been around vic since 2000 ish.  If he honestly cared he would have made a statement and changed his attitude way before the fact.  to say he was completely unaware is laughable but now that consequences are happening is when he suddenly starts the tearful apologies is what i call guilty to some degree.   He shouldnt be completely cast out from his primary source of income because i doubt hes rich enough to be unemployed for years.  he should lose some so at least that puts said behavior in check.  unless a far more serious crime becomes apparent with evidence.

And this is long overdue in our community for so many reasons.  The sheer amount of horror stories from women are reason enough to treat every accusation as truth. all the times ive talked to any women i know who are active as cosplayers have a list of horror stories that could fuel a blog for years. the truly sad part is even non cosplayers have just as many stories of people pretending to professional photographers or some other lie to try to get them alone.

burn it down and build it better is what we need to do for every aspect not just our culture.  The rot is too deep to expect minor actions to work at this point.

I don't think there's a gradient available to those who would employ him. Funimation can't be like "OK, we'll recast his parts in this but not this." His co-stars won't be happy with that, and fans won't be happy with that.

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If there is evidence to support the rumors and accusations  then appropriate charges need to be filed. Until then it's mostly speculations and rumor. The flurry of information on social media seems to make things even more unclear.

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1 hour ago, KyoKyo said:

If there is evidence to support the rumors and accusations  then appropriate charges need to be filed. Until then it's mostly speculations and rumor. The flurry of information on social media seems to make things even more unclear.

There's a big honking gap between a credible account and an indictment. He doesn't need to be in handcuffs for people to conclude he did these things or for him to suffer consequences like being disinvited from cons and recast in RWBY and at least one other show. There have been whispers about him for years. Even Monica Rial, a fellow voice actor, says she was on the receiving end. The difference is that now, people are listening.

If I catch wind he's going to be in the dub of something I'd like to buy, I don't know about you, but I won't buy it. Or I won't go to a con that would invite him from now on. And I can't possibly be alone.

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7 hours ago, KyoKyo said:

If there is evidence to support the rumors and accusations  then appropriate charges need to be filed. Until then it's mostly speculations and rumor. The flurry of information on social media seems to make things even more unclear.

Couple of things wrong with this:

1) A number of fellow voice actors and industry insiders have come out- first in support of victims, and then revealing they themselves have been victimized or witnessed creepy behavior from Vic. This isn't only congoers or fans coming forward, it's people who really know the guy.

2) RoosterTeeth has broken ties with him and Funi has replaced Vic in an upcoming dub with another actor. It's clear that at least these two companies think that the information presented is enough to choose to stop doing business with Vic. Perhaps they even have information we don't have (nor are we privileged to).

3)  Filing charges for sexual assault or even non-sexual harassment long after the fact is hard, if not impossible. Consider that Texas's statue of limitations for sexual assault is five years, and sexual harassment is 300 days- if it's been that long since the event, it cannot be filed. Many other locales have similar statutes, and a lot of these stories seem to be at least that old if not older. This doesn't even get into the fact that research shows that many, many legitimate sexual assault and harassment cases are thrown out before they're even filed due to police choosing not to believe the victim or, in the case of harassment, that it "wasn't that bad", so if he did anything creepy recently, it's not unfathomable it'd never reach investigation let alone trial. Just because of the biases inherent in our system of law regarding sexual harassment and assault. So a lot of victims simply don't bother reporting, and even if they did, chances are nothing would come of it in spite of it really happening. 

For this reason, public knowledge is as important in protecting people as the court of law. And the fact is, there are hundreds of people coming forward with firsthand stories of sex-pestery, or unprofessional or rude behavior... a good many putting public-figure-names to their accusations. Like, you can personally choose to think EVERYONE is lying (somehow), but the fact is, most people are going to see that Vic's got a lot of apologizing (actual apologizing, not shedding crocodile tears and giving a non-apology that puts the onus on his victims and subtly encouraging his fans to go after them) and growing to do, and that people aren't going to instantly forgive him until he's proved he can change- not that victims need to EVER forgive who's wronged them.

 

On 2/6/2019 at 5:31 PM, alabaster said:

Still, it's an uncomfortable position to be in.  Watching people I know go public about someone else I know doing bad things has been sobering. Questionable judgment calls are one thing, but documented and verifiable patterns and public accusations are another.  Once you know, or have reason to doubt, things change.

For the reporting of such complaints, it doesn't have to be ANN, though it's not unusual for news organizations to provide a secure forum for whistleblowers. The point is it needs to be a trusted, known, third party. But I'm not volunteering. 

Hell, I'm still mentally drained from the #metoo panel at Gallifrey last year and the conversations afterwards.

Yeah, a lot of fans have been heartbroken seeing Vic get outed (and Todd more or less self-out) like this, thinking that they "knew them", so the fact that people who actually spend entire weekends with them or work with him are discovering this must be even harder on them. I'm sorry you had to find out like this. And of course I feel even more sorry for the victims.

For what it's worth I agree that, while a list of people at cons to avoid is a good idea, the fact there isn't a lot of vetting going on and the individual hosting it is completely anonymous (not even a real username to speak of) makes all but the most backed-up named names worth taking with a huge grain of salt. 

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16 minutes ago, Tachibana said:

1) A number of fellow voice actors and industry insiders have come out- first in support of victims, and then revealing they themselves have been victimized or witnessed creepy behavior from Vic. This isn't only congoers or fans coming forward, it's people who really know the guy.

2) RoosterTeeth has broken ties with him and Funi has replaced Vic in an upcoming dub with another actor. It's clear that at least these two companies think that the information presented is enough to choose to stop doing business with Vic. Perhaps they even have information we don't have (nor are we privileged to).

3)  Filing charges for sexual assault or even non-sexual harassment long after the fact is hard, if not impossible. Consider that Texas's statue of limitations for sexual assault is five years, and sexual harassment is 300 days- if it's been that long since the event, it cannot be filed. Many other locales have similar statutes, and a lot of these stories seem to be at least that old if not older. This doesn't even get into the fact that research shows that many, many legitimate sexual assault and harassment cases are thrown out before they're even filed due to police choosing not to believe the victim or, in the case of harassment, that it "wasn't that bad", so if he did anything creepy recently, it's not unfathomable it'd never reach investigation let alone trial. Just because of the biases inherent in our system of law regarding sexual harassment and assault. So a lot of victims simply don't bother reporting, and even if they did, chances are nothing would come of it in spite of it really happening. 

For this reason, public knowledge is as important in protecting people as the court of law. And the fact is, there are hundreds of people coming forward with firsthand stories of sex-pestery, or unprofessional or rude behavior... a good many putting public-figure-names to their accusations. Like, you can personally choose to think EVERYONE is lying (somehow), but the fact is, most people are going to see that Vic's got a lot of apologizing (actual apologizing, not shedding crocodile tears and giving a non-apology that puts the onus on his victims and subtly encouraging his fans to go after them) and growing to do, and that people aren't going to instantly forgive him until he's proved he can change- not that victims need to EVER forgive who's wronged them.

If this is all correct then it seems we have another case of an industry knowing full well that these inappropriate actions were taking place for over a decade with very few people coming forward to address them. Now suddenly we are buried in an avalanche of accusations, thoughts and prayers and hurt feelings over something that should have been confronted long ago, especially with the sheer amount of veteran VAs that knew something was going on. I knew Vic was under fire for some time considering he had seemingly vanished from the con circuit until recently, but I wasn't aware of the severity. 

As a side note, my wife and I met him a number of years ago and he gave my wife a great big hug and thanked us for coming to the panel. I didn't get any particularly strange vibes from him although he did appear rather gregarious and energetic when we met him. From what I remember, none of his interactions with the fans seemed particularly out of place, but again that was a tiny glimpse of a much broader picture. 

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2 hours ago, KyoKyo said:

If this is all correct then it seems we have another case of an industry knowing full well that these inappropriate actions were taking place for over a decade with very few people coming forward to address them. Now suddenly we are buried in an avalanche of accusations, thoughts and prayers and hurt feelings over something that should have been confronted long ago, especially with the sheer amount of veteran VAs that knew something was going on. I knew Vic was under fire for some time considering he had seemingly vanished from the con circuit until recently, but I wasn't aware of the severity. 

That's indeed the case, as is the case in all industries, really. You have to recognize that dealing with sexual assault and harassment isn't something we as a society are all that good at. Companies would rather silence dissent or tell people to hash it out quietly, in order to keep things running smoothly. Or, again, due to the failure of us as a society to address sexual assault and harassment, not saying anything out of fear. I could get into it further but that'd take the discussion into a political realm and I'd rather keep the discussion centered around Vic. Basically, people staying quiet on such things isn't due to pure negligence - it's a fear of losing a livelihood of their own, or being thought of as a liar or rumormonger. I feel that's a positive of #MeToo: It's a signal that people can openly talk about bad experiences where they were assaulted, harassed, or made to feel uncomfortable or unsafe without being apologized to, and that many will believe and support them. As they always should have, tbh. 

And, like I said, like it's obviously horrible people have been hurt by Vic, it's a shame people who have had nothing but good experiences with people like Vic have to deal with this. This idea that someone they admired on some level and treated them kindly might be someone more sinister. To that I say you should take the good you got out of your experiences- whether in person or via experiencing Vic's roles- and cherish that, while also understanding he's severely fucked up personally and needs to be held accountable to improve himself and stop harming others, and that his victims ought be supported. If that makes sense.

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9 minutes ago, Tachibana said:

That's indeed the case, as is the case in all industries, really. You have to recognize that dealing with sexual assault and harassment isn't something we as a society are all that good at. Companies would rather silence dissent or tell people to hash it out quietly, in order to keep things running smoothly. Or, again, due to the failure of us as a society to address sexual assault and harassment, not saying anything out of fear. I could get into it further but that'd take the discussion into a political realm and I'd rather keep the discussion centered around Vic. Basically, people staying quiet on such things isn't due to pure negligence - it's a fear of losing a livelihood of their own, or being thought of as a liar or rumormonger. I feel that's a positive of #MeToo: It's a signal that people can openly talk about bad experiences where they were assaulted, harassed, or made to feel uncomfortable or unsafe without being apologized to, and that many will believe and support them. As they always should have, tbh. 

And, like I said, like it's obviously horrible people have been hurt by Vic, it's a shame people who have had nothing but good experiences with people like Vic have to deal with this. This idea that someone they admired on some level and treated them kindly might be someone more sinister. To that I say you should take the good you got out of your experiences- whether in person or via experiencing Vic's roles- and cherish that, while also understanding he's severely fucked up personally and needs to be held accountable to improve himself and stop harming others, and that his victims ought be supported. If that makes sense.

I guess what bothers me is where or what exactly is the truth? The social media war is muddling this thing so much, with numerous YouTube videos coming out in defense of him, people claiming it's just a MeToo witch hunt, allegations of photoshopping by alleged victims, the Todd Haberkorn thing and plenty of awkward and extremely uncomfortable stories coming from people's firsthand experiences of Vic at cons. Where do we go to find out the truth? Is it somewhere in the middle? It makes me want to completely disengage and go back upstairs and watch Dagashi Kashi and forget about the mess our current social climate is. 

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The way i look at it is like this.

We have a terrible awful history of treating women in general like inferior property and almost all cultures is guilty of it to some degree.

To still side with hundreds of years of documented abuse by denying multiple claims doesnt make a damn lick of sense to me. 

People want to hold onto there world views and will fight tooth and nail to keep there bubble intact.  No one wants to admit they are wrong and dig in despite there beliefs being horribly wrong.  I  choose to believe the accusations because i and society in general owe women that much.  I pay attention to history and this is literally history in the making so i want to be standing on the right side of it.  Cause nowadays your actions and words will follow you around for a lifetime.

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Here's a good video on this topic from Lost Pause (Noble):


 


No video that uses “SJW” unironically should be taken seriously.

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12 hours ago, KyoKyo said:

I guess what bothers me is where or what exactly is the truth? The social media war is muddling this thing so much, with numerous YouTube videos coming out in defense of him, people claiming it's just a MeToo witch hunt, allegations of photoshopping by alleged victims, the Todd Haberkorn thing and plenty of awkward and extremely uncomfortable stories coming from people's firsthand experiences of Vic at cons. Where do we go to find out the truth? Is it somewhere in the middle? It makes me want to completely disengage and go back upstairs and watch Dagashi Kashi and forget about the mess our current social climate is. 

1) People claiming it's just a MeToo witch hunt haven't been paying attention for the years of less viable claims but in retrospect probably truthful ones going 'round. This is ---- that's been going on for a while, it's only been taken seriously just now due to actually being organized and putting names to accusations. 

2) The photoshopping thing is a false flag. Literally the person who "said" it is a neutral party being impersonated. And even so it's a single individual, and should not discount the other accounts that are unrelated.

3) The whole thing with Todd is "telling on yourself" of the most bewildering type. His "accuser" didn't even bother to name him and wouldn't have lest others first came forward with their own accounts. Then he tries to cover his ass in spite of this, and someone else who was present confirms, no, the victim really was being fed a LOT of alcohol to an unsavory point. It's... a lot. How that should've been handled was privately if, as he claims, he didn't realize he was doing something wrong but... "Whoops"?

Honestly it's a headache to keep up with, but given the fact those in the industry are either victims themselves or stand with the victims at this point (or are not saying anything), and then those who are backing the Vic diehards are a bunch of... how to put it diplomatically... Always Online types apparently trying to start "Animegate" and outright harass individuals like Monica Rial in person (with one death threat so far) and threaten Funi with arson should be telling. If you're not invested either way it is probably best to just disengage. I'm only invested as I am, again, due to the experience I and my sibling have had. 

Like... is a big conspiracy involving people who appear unrelated to each other that has roots in the industry itself against Vic more likely, or just simply that Vic's just not the guy people thought he was? Just think about that.

9 hours ago, GasparAKAShiggitay said:

Here's a good video on this topic from Lost Pause (Noble):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL9oDQpNy-o

Any video with SJW in the title should be taken with massive, massive grains of salt if considered at all, tbqh, my dude. >_>;

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5 hours ago, Tachibana said:

1) People claiming it's just a MeToo witch hunt haven't been paying attention for the years of less viable claims but in retrospect probably truthful ones going 'round. This is ---- that's been going on for a while, it's only been taken seriously just now due to actually being organized and putting names to accusations. 

2) The photoshopping thing is a false flag. Literally the person who "said" it is a neutral party being impersonated. And even so it's a single individual, and should not discount the other accounts that are unrelated.

3) The whole thing with Todd is "telling on yourself" of the most bewildering type. His "accuser" didn't even bother to name him and wouldn't have lest others first came forward with their own accounts. Then he tries to cover his ass in spite of this, and someone else who was present confirms, no, the victim really was being fed a LOT of alcohol to an unsavory point. It's... a lot. How that should've been handled was privately if, as he claims, he didn't realize he was doing something wrong but... "Whoops"?

Honestly it's a headache to keep up with, but given the fact those in the industry are either victims themselves or stand with the victims at this point (or are not saying anything), and then those who are backing the Vic diehards are a bunch of... how to put it diplomatically... Always Online types apparently trying to start "Animegate" and outright harass individuals like Monica Rial in person (with one death threat so far) and threaten Funi with arson should be telling. If you're not invested either way it is probably best to just disengage. I'm only invested as I am, again, due to the experience I and my sibling have had. 

Like... is a big conspiracy involving people who appear unrelated to each other that has roots in the industry itself against Vic more likely, or just simply that Vic's just not the guy people thought he was? Just think about that.

Any video with SJW in the title should be taken with massive, massive grains of salt if considered at all, tbqh, my dude. >_>;

I guess so, but that video was an interesting watch anyway.....

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While I appreciate the sympathy, in no way do I intend this to ever become about me -- my intent was to say, in a nutshell, that I personally would not have brought any guest I considered a risk, based on the available information -- and I hope I haven't inadvertently enabled someone to creep on others.  I'm not just talking about this situation, but all sorts of risk -- failure to show, difficult to manage on site, prone to lateness, etc. are all factors. But any credible complaint of that nature -- against ANY guest -- would put the guest off the table until things became clear.  "Keep your distance until things play out" is a pretty safe strategy for an event or organization. Convictions, indictments, etc. are easy to deal with. But there's a grey area filled with rumor that is much, much harder to navigate. 

And I've defended people (Vic included) where I believed the attack to be unwarranted, or that it went against my direct experience with the person.  We have rarely had to put up with diva crap from ANY guest, and when it has happened that guest hasn't been back, or only came back when we'd reached an understanding about what was acceptable. And until quite recently, rumors about Vic were just that, fueled additionally by some fans who had issue with his public stand on his faith, or his take on certain characters.  He's not the only one with a hate-following. And that's before you get trolls and anon and other players in this space.

But it's kind of important to note that absolutely everything changes when people go public, or otherwise get things on the record.   Saying "I'm not comfortable around XXX" isn't enough, without a reason. Saying "I heard he got handsy" is just rumor and rumors are not helpful. Cons can't and shouldn't act on hearsay and rumor.  Aside from adding to the risks involved, it's not really fair to anyone, and people do actively try to draw events into their personal dramas *all the time*. 

I think you'll see many cons rolling out variations on two things, in the near future. First, a clear statement that con rules apply to guests as well -- plus a greater willingness to enforce it -- and second, contracts with a "bad behavior" clause that limits the risk events shoulder if they need to cancel because the guest has become a toxic figure.  Guests aren't cheap to have, and it's not a great situation if you un-invite someone for being, say, indicted for buying kiddy porn, but you have a legal obligation to pay him anyway.

 

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It got worse:

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Well this is f-ing, awful, to say the least. It felt pretty devastating when the creator of Rurouni Kenshin was busted for child porn, since I loved that series so much growing up. This feels similar given how FMA was very important to me in my high school years. Vic wasn't my favorite voice actor or anything, but everyone knew him as a staple figure in the community. You just feel duped on a personal level, you know? 

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Monica Rial has stopped tweeting at the advice of her lawyer and authorities and she and Vic separately called for an end to the hostilities by Internet tough guys, including death threats. Death threats!

I know some of the anger against the accusers is driven by interlopers, not people in fandom, but I worry about the ramifications of this cleansing beyond Vic.

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3 hours ago, Aresef said:

Monica Rial has stopped tweeting at the advice of her lawyer

That's good to hear. 

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4 hours ago, Aresef said:

It's worth noting here they actually mention investigating things themselves. So I think it's safe to say, at least wrt Texas VA accusations, it's 100% confirmed, though I always believed them. 

Of course now people are demanding proof from Funi... but like... That's not yours to have. It's very rare a company will actively share the nitty gritty of HR problems with the public, I can think of no reason why they'd do so here just to appease people who'd probably scoff and give excuses for why Funimation's investigation's result was wrong. Either accept that they did their due diligence to investigate the actions a VA they've kept on this long in spite of, again, rumors circling for years, or just accept you're never going to believe Vic did anything wrong short of him admitting it.

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It's worth noting here they actually mention investigating things themselves. So I think it's safe to say, at least wrt Texas VA accusations, it's 100% confirmed, though I always believed them. 
Of course now people are demanding proof from Funi... but like... That's not yours to have. It's very rare a company will actively share the nitty gritty of HR problems with the public, I can think of no reason why they'd do so here just to appease people who'd probably scoff and give excuses for why Funimation's investigation's result was wrong. Either accept that they did their due diligence to investigate the actions a VA they've kept on this long in spite of, again, rumors circling for years, or just accept you're never going to believe Vic did anything wrong short of him admitting it.


Yeah, while Monica Rial likely told them what happened to her, neither she nor Funi (nor any of the other three victims also alleging conduct more serious) owe us a damn thing. Unless there’s a court date involved, we may not hear further detail than we’ve got. At least not any time soon.

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7 minutes ago, GasparAKAShiggitay said:

Why is this thread even still a thing? >_>

Read the thread to find out or are you actually seriously questioning why a thread about a developing story is not closed?

Or are you part of the risembol cult?

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1 minute ago, Something Clever said:

Read the thread to find out or are you actually seriously questioning why a thread about a developing story is not closed?

Or are you part of the risembol cult?

Hahahah I did read most of the thread.. I'm not a member of any kind of cult... What I meant was this is just harboring drama... Drama is good to a point but it'll likely get out of hand soon enough (not saying I want it to or encouraging anyone to take it in that direction) but I'm just saying.

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1 minute ago, GasparAKAShiggitay said:

Hahahah I did read most of the thread.. I'm not a member of any kind of cult... What I meant was this is just harboring drama... Drama is good to a point but it'll likely get out of hand soon enough (not saying I want it to or encouraging anyone to take it in that direction) but I'm just saying.



The anime/con.fandom community has held this drama in for almost 15+ years this is gonna be messy and never truly go away.  This needs to be dragged out into the open no matter how ugly and drama filled it is.  The fandom as a whole will be a better place once the dust is settled and the proverbial bodies of the fallen are buried.

or just call it what it basically is which is #animemetoo

 

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3 minutes ago, Something Clever said:



The anime/con.fandom community has held this drama in for almost 15+ years this is gonna be messy and never truly go away.  This needs to be dragged out into the open no matter how ugly and drama filled it is.  The fandom as a whole will be a better place once the dust is settled and the proverbial bodies of the fallen are buried.

or just call it what it basically is which is #animemetoo

 

I suppose... TBH even before all this crap started to surface I never really liked the guy to begin with... I can't really explain it, but he never resonated with me well, and now this stuff started happening/surfacing.... I dunno what to think anymore... If you support him and you want him to be successful again, then so be it and have fun with that, but I don't like him and I'm sticking with that.

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4 minutes ago, GasparAKAShiggitay said:

I suppose... TBH even before all this crap started to surface I never really liked the guy to begin with... I can't really explain it, but he never resonated with me well, and now this stuff started happening/surfacing.... I dunno what to think anymore... If you support him and you want him to be successful again, then so be it and have fun with that, but I don't like him and I'm sticking with that.

Make no mistake on my stance i believe him to be guilty at the moment but i dont believe in mob justice.



When i said he shouldnt be fired was because to strip away everything before some hardcore evidence surfaced is unfair.  Maybe he is just a naive idiot who doesnt understand personal space. or maybe he is smart enough to walk the line he knows he can get away with.

He isnt a mega millionaire to my knowledge probably richer them most people but to kill his primary source of income without the smoking gun is going too far. 


He was already made a example of by rooster teeth firing him and all of his con appearances being cancelled.  Which for what he is accused of is a fair sentence until some form of severe sexual assault evidence comes to light.  People either want nothing to happen to him or want his head on a spear paraded around every anime con.  Which i feel is a bit extreme until actual investigations happen or some new evidence comes to light.


 set a example and the ground work for horrible behaviour no longer being tolerated then make sure to crucify the right person.

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43 minutes ago, Something Clever said:

Make no mistake on my stance i believe him to be guilty at the moment but i dont believe in mob justice.



When i said he shouldnt be fired was because to strip away everything before some hardcore evidence surfaced is unfair.  Maybe he is just a naive idiot who doesnt understand personal space. or maybe he is smart enough to walk the line he knows he can get away with.

He isnt a mega millionaire to my knowledge probably richer them most people but to kill his primary source of income without the smoking gun is going too far. 


He was already made a example of by rooster teeth firing him and all of his con appearances being cancelled.  Which for what he is accused of is a fair sentence until some form of severe sexual assault evidence comes to light.  People either want nothing to happen to him or want his head on a spear paraded around every anime con.  Which i feel is a bit extreme until actual investigations happen or some new evidence comes to light.


 set a example and the ground work for horrible behaviour no longer being tolerated then make sure to crucify the right person.

I mean no harm to him or you (I'm assuming one of his fans). I personally don't care for the guy, but I do not wish any harm onto him.... I'm just saying that threads like these can easily get out of hand, and with that I'm not posting to this thread anymore. He did what he did, and he's paying for it in more ways than one. I hope he learns from this experience and grows from it.

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not one of his fans just someone who believes there is such a thing as a middle ground.


What does a middle ground entail? Either he did these things or he didn’t. Either he works again or he doesn’t. I don’t think there’s a halfway.

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4 hours ago, Aresef said:

 


What does a middle ground entail? Either he did these things or he didn’t. Either he works again or he doesn’t. I don’t think there’s a halfway.

the problem is there isnt a halfway its either all or nothing which is a terrible way of deciding guilt.

He didnt rape anyone as far as we know he seems to be either a naive handsy person who doesnt get personal space.  Or a handsy pervert who knows where the line ends.

No reason to immediately fire anyone just suspend them from employment while an investigation happens is how we should do things.  report what you find and either re hire them after x or choose not to depending on the severity of what you find but tell the friggin public.


Look at how toxic the situation is with his fans against the non fans which is because of how the current social media court operates.


That scorched earth policy is what breeds such toxicity and what makes stuff like this such a clusterfrick.

No middle ground exists and that is a key problem because the guilty use that to there advantage.  By hiding behind charm,money,power etc and there fans the real truth gets buried so most just decide eh screw it set it all on fire.   And then that just starts the whole friggin circus over again and again and again.

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8 minutes ago, Something Clever said:

the problem is there isnt a halfway its either all or nothing which is a terrible way of deciding guilt.

He didnt rape anyone as far as we know he seems to be either a naive handsy person who doesnt get personal space.  Or a handsy pervert who knows where the line ends.

No reason to immediately fire anyone just suspend them from employment while an investigation happens is how we should do things.  report what you find and either re hire them after x or choose not to depending on the severity of what you find but tell the friggin public.


Look at how toxic the situation is with his fans against the non fans which is because of how the current social media court operates.


That scorched earth policy is what breeds such toxicity and what makes stuff like this such a clusterfrick.

No middle ground exists and that is a key problem because the guilty use that to there advantage.  By hiding behind charm,money,power etc and there fans the real truth gets buried so most just decide eh screw it set it all on fire.   And then that just starts the whole friggin circus over again and again and again.

I mean, there are multiple credible allegations of sexual assault, including by industry peers. That's plenty reason to make him persona non grata. It's a shame, but he's only got himself to blame.

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Vic WILL work again. There's no question in my mind. People like him have been accused of worse and bounced back into their original careers. Now, the difference here is colleagues are accusing him. So maybe he'll never work in the voiceover industry proper again. So what? He's done uncredited work on various game dubs before, he can probably continue doing that. And if not that, he used to be a youth minister. Now, as bad an idea as it might be for him to be one, given what's been put forward, I have suspicions several employers who'd hire him for the role wouldn't care so long as he stood by either "I didn't do that" or "I've changed". He could probably just go back to that. 

And people who, for whatever reason are still fans? I don't think he'll be closing down his mailbox or his fanclub anytime soon.

So all this is, and what people behind the #KickVic tag hoped to accomplish, is to remove him from a position where he had access to teenaged girls and women to harass them, both on VO jobs and in the con circuit. Which, I think, seems to be where we are now.

It's just, again, a shame that his colleagues who called him out are now being harassed and threatened by either his fans or just alt-right bullies in general, but, hopefully cons can give those guests extra security until things cool down and they can stay safe at Funi and at home.

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19 minutes ago, Tachibana said:

Vic WILL work again. There's no question in my mind. People like him have been accused of worse and bounced back into their original careers. Now, the difference here is colleagues are accusing him. So maybe he'll never work in the voiceover industry proper again. So what? He's done uncredited work on various game dubs before, he can probably continue doing that. And if not that, he used to be a youth minister. Now, as bad an idea as it might be for him to be one, given what's been put forward, I have suspicions several employers who'd hire him for the role wouldn't care so long as he stood by either "I didn't do that" or "I've changed". He could probably just go back to that. 

And people who, for whatever reason are still fans? I don't think he'll be closing down his mailbox or his fanclub anytime soon.

So all this is, and what people behind the #KickVic tag hoped to accomplish, is to remove him from a position where he had access to teenaged girls and women to harass them, both on VO jobs and in the con circuit. Which, I think, seems to be where we are now.

It's just, again, a shame that his colleagues who called him out are now being harassed and threatened by either his fans or just alt-right bullies in general, but, hopefully cons can give those guests extra security until things cool down and they can stay safe at Funi and at home.

If we were talking about a few incidents of getting too handsy, it would have been possible to take his apology seriously. But we're talking about a pattern of behavior a lot of people knew about, coupled with the alleged sexual assaults we're now learning about. There's a long list of bad men in the entertainment industry who haven't been convicted of anything, but will never work again, like John Kricfalusi and Matt Lauer. There are things people won't forget.

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6 hours ago, Aresef said:

If we were talking about a few incidents of getting too handsy, it would have been possible to take his apology seriously. But we're talking about a pattern of behavior a lot of people knew about, coupled with the alleged sexual assaults we're now learning about. There's a long list of bad men in the entertainment industry who haven't been convicted of anything, but will never work again, like John Kricfalusi and Matt Lauer. There are things people won't forget.

I mean, I hope you're right, he needs to show he's changed and it's clear he refuses to even acknowledge he did anything wrong. But I have doubts.

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I mean, I hope you're right, he needs to show he's changed and it's clear he refuses to even acknowledge he did anything wrong. But I have doubts.


Whatever he does, it won’t be in anime or video games. There are not a lot of companies that dub anime, and these people all talk to one another. Whether it’s New Generation or Bang Zoom or Studiopolis or NYAV Post and no matter who’s directing, it’s a small enough community that everybody knows who he is, that many of these people have had experiences or heard the stories. And many of these people, if they weren’t looking for an excuse to distance themselves already, likely find him too toxic to work with now.

So he would have to relocate, since there’s not voiceover work for him in Texas. And he’d have to find his way into a union project, get Taft-Hartley’d and all that, and then hope to find a truly daft casting director.

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What I don't understand is how this was going on for so long without anyone coming forward sooner or the issues being addressed. The anime dub industry is small and closely-knit and doesn't in any way resemble a large-scale Hollywood power structure that would protect someone like a Kevin Spacey or Harvey Weinstein. I know there were rumblings for years about how his behavior was "misrepresented" at best and he seemed to have dropped off the con circuit for a number of years. I'm not sure if its a glowing recommendation of the industry if other VAs knew that innocent people, their fans, were experiencing this and did or said nothing about it to Mignonga's team. Maybe the corporate side of Funimation wanted this downplayed. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't and we just don't know.

There are some socially/politically vocal VAs within the dub industry that were unusually quiet up until now. I'm surprised Jamie Marchi wasn't shouting this thing from the rooftops earlier judging by how outraged she is on Twitter. 

Who knows. Maybe I need to "take his [Vic Mignonga's] d**k out of my ears so I can hear reality" as Marchi suggests.

This whole thing has left a sour taste in my mouth from both sides. I've unsubbed from Funimation and am going back to CR subs. As soon as I give western anime localization/adaptation a chance, this sort of thing happens.

 

 I'm curious if this will be brought up by attendees at various industry or VA panels during the upcoming convention season. 

 

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