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'Far From Perfect': Fans Recount Unwanted Affection from Voice Actor Vic Mignogna

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And honestly due to the toxic nature of fans woo boy are there gonna some fireworks for q&a sessions and autographs.  Unless they wait long enough for the toxic people to move onto the next outrage

 

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1 hour ago, KyoKyo said:

What I don't understand is how this was going on for so long without anyone coming forward sooner or the issues being addressed. The anime dub industry is small and closely-knit and doesn't in any way resemble a large-scale Hollywood power structure that would protect someone like a Kevin Spacey or Harvey Weinstein. I know there were rumblings for years about how his behavior was "misrepresented" at best and he seemed to have dropped off the con circuit for a number of years. I'm not sure if its a glowing recommendation of the industry if other VAs knew that innocent people, their fans, were experiencing this and did or said nothing about it to Mignonga's team. Maybe the corporate side of Funimation wanted this downplayed. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't and we just don't know.

There are some socially/politically vocal VAs within the dub industry that were unusually quiet up until now. I'm surprised Jamie Marchi wasn't shouting this thing from the rooftops earlier judging by how outraged she is on Twitter. 

Who knows. Maybe I need to "take his [Vic Mignonga's] d**k out of my ears so I can hear reality" as Marchi suggests.

This whole thing has left a sour taste in my mouth from both sides. I've unsubbed from Funimation and am going back to CR subs. As soon as I give western anime localization/adaptation a chance, this sort of thing happens.

 

 I'm curious if this will be brought up by attendees at various industry or VA panels during the upcoming convention season. 

 

I think it has everything to do with redefining what harassment means.  Honestly, I con, but I don't follow voice actors. I wouldn't know him from a Joe Schmo from Kalamazo, so I've never heard anything about him.

But think about it from way back in the day. Everyone had a Creepy Uncle Lester who would hug you and kiss you at Thanksgiving. You took it, accepted it, and then talked about them behind their back after about how weird he was.  While I'm not familiar with the allegations being brought forth now, the one's I've seen are of the creepy variety.  People are just now being comfortable with the fact that they can come forward and say they are uncomfortable, and people are starting to support them.  It's no longer acceptable to invade someones personal space.

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15 minutes ago, KellyMae said:

I think it has everything to do with redefining what harassment means.  Honestly, I con, but I don't follow voice actors. I wouldn't know him from a Joe Schmo from Kalamazo, so I've never heard anything about him.

But think about it from way back in the day. Everyone had a Creepy Uncle Lester who would hug you and kiss you at Thanksgiving. You took it, accepted it, and then talked about them behind their back after about how weird he was.  While I'm not familiar with the allegations being brought forth now, the one's I've seen are of the creepy variety.  People are just now being comfortable with the fact that they can come forward and say they are uncomfortable, and people are starting to support them.  It's no longer acceptable to invade someones personal space.

the main problem is the laws and courts dont change with the times.   We should honestly try to make a social media version of law enforcement or something.   Where if something like this happens or something very concerning gets posted report it to whoever so its there job so sift through accusations contact people confirm stories and deem it valid enough to pass it along to the courts or police.  Would stop all of these people screaming about evidence or due process at least and reduce alot of the toxicity 

Edited by Something Clever

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2 hours ago, KyoKyo said:

What I don't understand is how this was going on for so long without anyone coming forward sooner or the issues being addressed. The anime dub industry is small and closely-knit and doesn't in any way resemble a large-scale Hollywood power structure that would protect someone like a Kevin Spacey or Harvey Weinstein. I know there were rumblings for years about how his behavior was "misrepresented" at best and he seemed to have dropped off the con circuit for a number of years. I'm not sure if its a glowing recommendation of the industry if other VAs knew that innocent people, their fans, were experiencing this and did or said nothing about it to Mignonga's team. Maybe the corporate side of Funimation wanted this downplayed. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't and we just don't know.

There are some socially/politically vocal VAs within the dub industry that were unusually quiet up until now. I'm surprised Jamie Marchi wasn't shouting this thing from the rooftops earlier judging by how outraged she is on Twitter. 

Who knows. Maybe I need to "take his [Vic Mignonga's] d**k out of my ears so I can hear reality" as Marchi suggests.

This whole thing has left a sour taste in my mouth from both sides. I've unsubbed from Funimation and am going back to CR subs. As soon as I give western anime localization/adaptation a chance, this sort of thing happens.

 

 I'm curious if this will be brought up by attendees at various industry or VA panels during the upcoming convention season. 

 

Without naming names, I'm going to paraphrase a voice actor I've heard from. Not speaking specifically about the Vic situation, if you speak up about something, you run the risk of directors and higher-ups getting antsy about casting you in the future. Suddenly, there goes your health insurance.

But after the spreadsheet and the ANN piece, people like Monica Rial and Jamie Marchi must have judged that the cost of speaking up was now far less.

I'm not staff at Otakon or anywhere else, but I'd put money on question screeners being more common.

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2 hours ago, Aresef said:

But after the spreadsheet and the ANN piece, people like Monica Rial and Jamie Marchi must have judged that the cost of speaking up was now far less.

Jamie Marchi's Tweets were very disappointing. 

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39 minutes ago, GasparAKAShiggitay said:

I know I said I wouldn't participate in this thread, but I just found this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn5ftKntbfk

 

 




edit 2- i just saw the other video you posted that basically said the same exact rhetoric yeah i have my answer never mind.  You believe the accused are victims of the big bad sjw boogyman not the people coming foward as victims got it.

Edited by Something Clever

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7 hours ago, KyoKyo said:

What I don't understand is how this was going on for so long without anyone coming forward sooner or the issues being addressed.

Just goes to show how hard it is for victims of sexual harassment/assault to come forward, no matter where they happen to work. Whether its sports, the culinary industry, church, etc.

 

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Jamie Marchi's Tweets were very disappointing. 

 

I don’t think so. There are just people who would like to read into them things that are obviously not there, because there’s a case they want to make that is not supported by what is public.

 

Here’s a post from Samantha Inoue-Harte reflecting on the internal probe, including evidence of Vic’s behavior around a Japanese guest at a con:

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4 hours ago, Something Clever said:




edit 2- i just saw the other video you posted that basically said the same exact rhetoric yeah i have my answer never mind.  You believe the accused are victims of the big bad sjw boogyman not the people coming forward as victims got it.

I never said anything like that. I posted that video solely to contribute to the conversation... Calm down.

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44 minutes ago, GasparAKAShiggitay said:

I never said anything like that. I posted that video solely to contribute to the conversation... Calm down.


why did you come back?  Oh and thats basically the same video as earlier well same theme behind it.  Also you constantly replying to everything i say when you could just ignore me post you video and leave makes it seem like your just a tad defensive if you must reply to everything i say which is unnecessary

 

 

 

Edited by Something Clever

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55 minutes ago, Something Clever said:


why did you come back?  Oh and thats basically the same video as earlier well same theme behind it.  Also you constantly replying to everything i say when you could just ignore me post you video and leave makes it seem like your just a tad defensive if you must reply to everything i say which is unnecessary

 

 

 

Honestly, the same goes for you. Just accept that all I was doing was trying to do was add to the conversation and that I'm indifferent to the situation as a whole. YOU'RE the one being defensive. Had I not have found that video (of which is an opinion of one YouTuber, even if the theme was similar to the one I posted before) I wouldn't have posted again. TheQuartering brings up some points that LostPause(Noble) did not. I found it interesting and found that it might be something people could talk about in a civilized, adult manner... With you it seems like that's not possible. Again, I am indifferent to the situation, and I hope Vic learns from this situation. I am not a fan of his work generally because I'm not a huge fan of dubbed anime. I wish him well, and let's see if he can bounce back after this ordeal.

Have a good one.

Edited by GasparAKAShiggitay

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says indifferent to the situation yet every video he posts is clearly on vics side yep that checks out. And this one is the guy who started up the go fund me for vics lawyer yeah no bias what so ever at all.

Also are we really supposed to take a youtuber memer seriously as a lawyer?

Edited by Something Clever

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1 hour ago, GasparAKAShiggitay said:

Here's an actual lawyer talking about what Vic can do in his situation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snt0KPwYYv0

 


https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/02/19/nick-rekieta-launches-go-fund-me-for-vic-mignognas-legal-team/



yeah thats a professional with no bias alrighty

reminds me of saul goodman from breaking bad


 also what lawyer needs a patreon?  https://www.patreon.com/lawsplaining

Edited by Something Clever

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5 minutes ago, Something Clever said:

Yes he's an actual lawyer that either runs or works for a small law firm in Minnesota. He can't have any bias. He isn't Vic's direct lawyer, but he does have a law degree from what I understand.

Also why do you try and troll me each time I post something to this thread? Sure I said I'd stop posting, but I found something that's actually credible for discussion and all you do is act like a child and attempt to make me look bad... Why? Stop doing that and this thread can be used for proper debate on Vic's situation.

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22 minutes ago, GasparAKAShiggitay said:

Yes he's an actual lawyer that either runs or works for a small law firm in Minnesota. He can't have any bias. He isn't Vic's direct lawyer, but he does have a law degree from what I understand.

Also why do you try and troll me each time I post something to this thread? Sure I said I'd stop posting, but I found something that's actually credible for discussion and all you do is act like a child and attempt to make me look bad... Why? Stop doing that and this thread can be used for proper debate on Vic's situation.

when have you posted something credible?

All the videos are clearly biased to a laughable degree by people who have no credibility.  just because you claim something doesnt make it true and the least credible thing is and always be youtubers.  And due to the nature of this its easy for anyone to twist words and facts to fit there agenda.

The last 3 were about sjws and all were done by schmucks on youtube.  This one follows the same pattern some guy who is probably a lawyer by the thinnest margin with no credibility what so ever.  There is such a thing as credible sources and some guy doing a lets play of law selling merch and patreon doesnt scream credible to me.  Heck i did a  google of his address just because i could.   Do you see anything that looks like a decent law office?  yeah post something that actually looks serious and ill admit im wrong.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x52b5593a5ca2f46f:0xa2206f50cea22b22!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4s/maps/place/rekieta%2Blaw/@45.2330396,-94.9397496,3a,75y,263.81h,90t/data%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211spdanKLxpKQfh4RdNzxOoUg*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x52b5593a5ca2f46f:0xa2206f50cea22b22!5srekieta+law+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e2!2spdanKLxpKQfh4RdNzxOoUg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiW2fG2q8vgAhWhl-AKHaBjCQQQpx8wGXoECAcQCw

if you want a discussion post something credible to be discussed so we can stop flinging mud around and making this situation worse and more foggy.  listening to someone with a clear bias doesnthelp promote a discussion it helps promote problems
 

Edited by Something Clever

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30 minutes ago, Something Clever said:

when have you posted something credible?

All the videos are clearly biased to a laughable degree by people who have no credibility.  just because you claim something doesnt make it true and the least credible thing is and always be youtubers.  And due to the nature of this its easy for anyone to twist words and facts to fit there agenda.

The last 3 were about sjws and all were done by schmucks on youtube.  This one follows the same pattern some guy who is probably a lawyer by the thinnest margin with no credibility what so ever.  There is such a thing as credible sources and some guy doing a lets play of law selling merch and patreon doesnt scream credible to me.  Heck i did a  google of his address just because i could.   Do you see anything that looks like a decent law office?  yeah post something that actually looks serious and ill admit im wrong.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x52b5593a5ca2f46f:0xa2206f50cea22b22!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4s/maps/place/rekieta%2Blaw/@45.2330396,-94.9397496,3a,75y,263.81h,90t/data%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211spdanKLxpKQfh4RdNzxOoUg*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x52b5593a5ca2f46f:0xa2206f50cea22b22!5srekieta+law+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e2!2spdanKLxpKQfh4RdNzxOoUg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiW2fG2q8vgAhWhl-AKHaBjCQQQpx8wGXoECAcQCw

if you want a discussion post something credible to be discussed so we can stop flinging mud around and making this situation worse and more foggy.  listening to someone with a clear bias doesnthelp promote a discussion it helps promote problems
 

The Minnesota lawyer is actually a practicing lawyer, according to an online database from the Minnesota judiciary. He just doesn't have a website.

I'm not a mod, but I think we need to get this thread back on track.

io9 report: https://io9.gizmodo.com/one-of-anime-s-biggest-voices-accused-of-sexual-harassm-1832390505

Samantha Inoue-Harte had something happen at her home: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2019-02-20/police-report-dub-voice-actress-door-damaged-classified-criminal-mischief/.143617

Monica Rial elaborates: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2019-02-20/bulma-voice-actress-monica-rial-shares-alleged-inappropriate-encounters-with-vic-mignogna/.143664

Edited by Aresef
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At this point I am pretty sure Vic probably did somethings, but I doubt he did everything he's being accused of. A lot of stuff from the Funi staff seems fishy and very suspect, especially that fake swatting crap that really derailed any credibility they had. Monica, Jamie, Sean acting loony on twitter, Samantha faking a swatting, people writing the io9 article being friends with Samantha on facebook, ANN censoring comment sections heavily, so on and so forth. To me, it certainly could be plausible that this is an agenda. It could also be completely valid.

At the very minimum a lot of people involved have been acting very unprofessionally with their social media accounts.

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ANN is censoring threads because people are engaging in conspiratorial nonsense.

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3 hours ago, razisgosu said:

At this point I am pretty sure Vic probably did somethings,

 

Gee, how white of you.

3 hours ago, razisgosu said:

Monica, Jamie, Sean acting loony on twitter

What you call "acting loony" is what I call reporting actual personal experience and speaking straight from the heart.

3 hours ago, razisgosu said:

ANN censoring comment sections heavily,

Oh, so you'd rather ANN allow the posting of ridiculous conspiracy theories, huh?

Edited by Zeeba Neighba
Clarification

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Hi All, Moderator here.

I know this is a difficult discussion and one that does need its space to be worked through. With that I'm going to ask that everyone please take a moment before you post something and think about how you'd feel if the text was a reply to something you posted. Likewise when you read a post, please give the poster some benefit of the doubt on their tone as much as you'd like to have the same consideration for your posts. A lot of non-verbal context gets lost with just text, which makes it more difficult to accurately express ideas and opinions. 

We all do not have to agree, but we do want to have a space where we can talk about what we disagree on.

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The lawyer in question literally set up a gofundme to support Vic- he's not impartial even if he's not personally supporting Vic. He was also vocal during ComicsGate, a movement every bit as misogynist and racist as GamerGate. Notably, in spite of the lawyer initially saying he doesn't even know Vic, a recent statement Vic made indicates they are friends. And I don't know about you guys, but if you're in the midst of defending your morality... your morality really doesn't look good if you're calling a guy with such views- a guy who used enough tanner to have black people call him out on it - a friend, rather than a fan or a supporter. Even though it sounds like they literally just met.

In other words, I don't view this lawyer as a trustworthy person. And comparing Vic's case to other similar cases- such as Digital Homicide's cases against Jim Sterling and about 100+ critics of them on their Steam Page respectively, both of which were thrown out, Jim's in particular "with extreme prejudice"- I cannot see any action he could take that would not end up poorly for him. 

Like, let's go over this a sec. I'm still not even sure what angle he could TRY to tackle it from that wouldn't end badly for him. Monica or Jamie? Again, lots of people to back either up- several dozen colleagues INCLUDING HIS EX-FIANCE vs. him, his lawyer and his mom. Like. HMMM. Wonder who a judge would side with. Funimation? Never employed beyond contract work, same with RT, and given Texan law, they did nothing wrong in simply stating they won't work with him any longer. Suing a disparate group of accusers, perhaps including one of his coworkers or former employers? Such cases, from what I know, never end up well for anyone outside of actual big corporations, and I guarantee every last accusation that isn't totally anonymous (i.e., the i09 article ones would probably count, not so much the ones from tumblr/4chan/pll) would be used against him in court as character testimony. Texas also has pretty hardcore anti-SLAPP laws, so the latter would REALLY not go well. Suing cons who cancelled? I mean, if he wants to make himself look like a jackass, I guess, but I don't know what that'd achieve?

There is no legal action out of this situation. He can at best defend himself from an accuser suing him. If he truly wants to return to voice acting and the con circuit, he needs to go to the life counselor he talked about and show active attempts to change.

----

Also: Samantha did not fake the swatting- or at least, did not fake a crime having happened to her. What happened was someone called her, said they were getting her swatted, she went to her house, saw the door broken in, called the cops. I'm not sure why she lied in the first place, especially since there's a police report and everything, but perhaps it's a combination of her being unwell as Adam said and someone legitimately targeting her, wanting to make it as big as she felt in her head. Still awful, but simply going to a currently vacant house, vandalizing the door, and jetting isn't as bad as getting someone SWATted.

As far as overreactions go- I mean, what would you do if you or your friend shared a personal story that caused a lot of emotional turmoil... only for people to IMMEDIATELY attack you and call your character into question, thus making you think for a second maybe you should have stayed quiet and gone unheard and suffered in silence all along? Only then to, well, realize that, no you shouldn't be quiet, and online trolls SHOULDN'T silence you. So you get angry and speak perhaps a bit harshly, or show anxiety. The only one I really hold anything against is Sean and that's because he's had a known beef against Vic for a while and isn't the most... elegant speaker. He should have just stayed quiet outside of voicing support or whatever, not actively gone after trolls. 

Additionally, in case you weren't aware, the Quartering is also an alt-right individual, and given Otakon's response to the Unite the Right rally last year, I should hope anyone with his political, hateful views - such as YellowFlash among others- would not be welcome on this board by the users here, and with that in mind, I personally dismiss their videos out of hand. 

----

And again, as someone who saw Vic being creepy (albeit, not to the level of harassment or assault, just a concerningly tight hug), as someone who has heard rumors both in person and on various boards for YEARS- there's no way in HELL this is all just some conspiracy. Unless like there's a bunch of random congoers who never ever met each other also in cahoots with a bunch of colleagues of his who had to quietly put up with him for fear of their job... which. I don't know, Occam's Razor you know- Which makes more sense?

  • A literal actor putting on a nice face for his fans as well as to his unknowing colleagues, while using his position to bully and harass other fans and colleagues?
  • Or a total saint who has never ever ever done ANYTHING wrong ever, and somehow had years and years of "malicious rumors" pile up against him followed by a conspiracy that started with a hashtag filled with people unrelated to each other, until his colleagues started speaking up, who apparently all want him out? And something about stolen jobs that don't really exist? Eh?

Like, yeah, there are people invested in this now that do have connections to one another. It's not that humongous an industry worker-wise, stateside anyway. There's gonna be people who know one another when dealing with a controversy involving such a big star in the industry. Maybe you could say that the industry needs more blood in it then, from seeing this- more journalists, more talent, more administrators and so on- but suggesting it's a huge conspiracy reeks to me of either desperation, or a grift. I'm not suggesting anyone itt is either, I mean specifically his vocal supporters.

Edited by Tachibana
separating sections for clarity
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6 hours ago, Zeeba Neighba said:

Gee, how white of you.

What you call "acting loony" is what I call reporting actual personal experience and speaking straight from the heart.

Oh, so you'd rather ANN allow the posting of ridiculous conspiracy theories, huh?

You can calm the sarcasm. There's no need for it. If you disagree with me simply say so.

Edited by razisgosu

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9 hours ago, razisgosu said:

You can calm the sarcasm. There's no need for it. If you disagree with me simply say so.

Uh, dude, it wasn't me who made those mean-spirited comments about Rial and Marchi and then whinged about ANN.

Sorry, but you get what you give in life.

Edited by Zeeba Neighba

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So im betting this plays out 4 ways

vics lawsuit goes nowhere and he eventually comes back but will never be as powerful as he once was in terms of pull.

He somehow gets actually proven guilty but not enough to actually arrest him.

He somehow gets actually proven guilty and gets arrested or jailed or other.  Then his bonkers fans pull off the first mass shooting at a anime con because its all a conspiracy and his accusers are either targeted or killed .

Proven innocent just because he technically did nothing wrong but still guilty in public court.

Edited by Something Clever

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Guys, a mod literally just said to not get into fights, I know it's a rather, well, hard situation, but let's try to get along discussing this. 

Like I said in my big ol' post up there, I think Monica and Jamie were ... if not justified in how they acted, then at least easily forgivable. Again, they shared a very personal story each only to then be attacked for it, after no doubt thinking for years they'd never be able to get closure and seeing an opportunity to now by coming out with their stories.

7 minutes ago, Something Clever said:

vics lawsuit goes nowhere and he eventually comes back but will never be as powerful as he once was in terms of pull.

I'm also guessing this. It doesn't seem as if any of the victims wish to pursue criminal charges (hell, Monica just literally wants him to change to be better) so he can't exactly go to jail given how these sorts of laws work unless in the middle of the case it's somehow proven he did something with/to a minor. But if he does go after almost any of them, they have pretty ironclad defense, in my opinion, given the sheer volume of accusations.

Edited by Tachibana

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4 hours ago, Zeeba Neighba said:

Uh, dude, it wasn't me who made those mean-spirited comments about Rial and Marchi and then whinged about ANN.

Sorry, but you get what you give in life.

There was nothing mean spirited about what i said, you just got all up in arms, decided to get upset and lash out at me. You clearly haven't been following the mean spirited things going on on twitter if that's what you think. ANN censoring comments is a fact, theres nothing whinged about it. 

Edited by razisgosu

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16 minutes ago, razisgosu said:

There was nothing mean spirited about what i said, you just got all up in arms, decided to get upset and lash out at me. You clearly haven't been following the mean spirited things going on on twitter if that's what you think. ANN censoring comments is a fact, theres nothing whinged about it. 

I mean, it isn't censorship, it's moderation. Repeating talking points taken directly from, frankly, inflammatory people like YellowFlash, as if its a legitimate stance is something I think any community manager, whether mod or admin or otherwise, has a right to moderate. Ergo, if you ask me, ANN did nothing wrong.

I would also argue that stating someone is "acting loony" when they really haven't done anything wrong considering the context is a tad mean spirited. Just be careful of your wording when talking about victims, yeah? "Reacting poorly" or something might have been better phrasing. ;)

Edited by Tachibana

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On 2/21/2019 at 6:55 PM, razisgosu said:

There was nothing mean spirited about what i said,

So referring to Marchi and Rial pouring out their hearts and recalling their own personal experiences as "acting loony on twitter" isn't being mean-spirited, huh?  Go figure.

On 2/21/2019 at 6:55 PM, razisgosu said:

you just got all up in arms

This, coming from a guy who didn't like what Rial and Marchi had to say and doesn't like it when ANN won't permit someone to spread ridiculous conspiracy theories on their threads.

Edited by Zeeba Neighba

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2 hours ago, Zeeba Neighba said:

So referring to Marchi and Rial pouring out their hearts and recalling their own personal experiences as "acting loony on twitter" isn't being mean-spirited, huh?  Go figure.

This, coming from a guy who didn't like what Rial and Marchi had to say and doesn't like it when ANN won't permit someone to spread ridiculous conspiracy theories on their threads.

Have you seen what Marchi has been saying on twitter? Because I never once said their personal experiences were loony as you seem to think. Or is the only thing you've seen from her, her story? Bottom line is that there have been quite a few professionals out there who have been acting less than professional in their behavior and that's pretty undeniable.

Yes, I don't particularly like when a discussion board censors discussion, no crime in that.

Edited by razisgosu

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10 minutes ago, razisgosu said:

Have you seen what Marchi has been saying on twitter? Because I never once said their personal experiences were loony as you seem to think. Or is the only thing you've seen from her, her story? Bottom line is that there have been quite a few professionals out there who have been acting less than professional in their behavior and that's pretty undeniable.

Yes, I don't particularly like when a discussion board censors discussion, no crime in that.

but conspiracy theories aren't discussions there just echo chambers.

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5 minutes ago, razisgosu said:

Conspiracy theories start because there's fishy stuff going on. Stuff that should be discussed. Not silenced.

oh...... i realize the type of person im talking to never mind

Edited by Something Clever

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21 hours ago, razisgosu said:

Conspiracy theories start because there's

...paranoia going on.  Stuff that should be laughed at and then dismissed.  Not taken the slightest bit seriously.

FTFY

 

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32 minutes ago, Zeeba Neighba said:

...paranoia going on.  Stuff that should be laughed at and then dismissed.  Not taken the slightest bit seriously.

FTFY

 

If you say so.

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Okay. So.

Let's think about this for a moment.

What's actually more likely?

That a 56 year old actor with a pattern of boundary issues (who considers silence to be consent) with women and girls to whom he is much, much older who cheated on his long-term fiancee of twelve years and has a nearly two decade long reputation of being a diva, difficult to work with both in the industry and at conventions to the point that he's been frequently blacklisted and banned for bad behavior (reminder: he wasn't banned for just being a d*ck, but it's been documented a number of times that he's screamed at staffers to the point of making them break down into tears) who leans on his religiosity with a "methinks he dost protest too much" fervor as a handwaving excuse for his worst behavior just happens to be a creep who has exactly zero industry colleagues who are backing him...

OR

There's been an orchestrated conspiracy for the past two decades to slowly trickle lies about a perfectly upstanding 40-50+ year old man who somehow never learned personal space and is totally the nicest guy--I'm sure every staffer he's glared at, rolled his eyes toward, and called a "f*cking amateur" while shoulder checking and not apologizing was just exaggerating the emotional abuse someone they might have admired threw their way--on various internet boards, forums, and social media sites about disparate events and conventions, preparing for a film they would have no way of knowing would be releasing in theaters for a Dragon Ball series that wouldn't air until 2015, just so that they could take down this perfectly upstanding fellow all because he happened to be a conservative(?) Christian in the anime industry and replace all his parts with an actress, writer, and director who has a much broader but very different vocal range. Am I getting the brass tacks of this monumentally stupid conspiracy theory correct?

I don't know about you, but Occam's razor would seem to suggest that a cheating, 56 year old man with a pattern of boundary and consent issues being a creep would be the most likely scenario.

Edited by PiraticalJack

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10 hours ago, PiraticalJack said:

Okay. So.

Let's think about this for a moment.

What's actually more likely?

That a 56 year old actor with a pattern of boundary issues (who considers silence to be consent) with women and girls to whom he is much, much older who cheated on his long-term fiancee of twelve years and has a nearly two decade long reputation of being a diva, difficult to work with both in the industry and at conventions to the point that he's been frequently blacklisted and banned for bad behavior (reminder: he wasn't banned for just being a d*ck, but it's been documented a number of times that he's screamed at staffers to the point of making them break down into tears) who leans on his religiosity with a "methinks he dost protest too much" fervor as a handwaving excuse for his worst behavior just happens to be a creep who has exactly zero industry colleagues who are backing him...

OR

There's been an orchestrated conspiracy for the past two decades to slowly trickle lies about a perfectly upstanding 40-50+ year old man who somehow never learned personal space and is totally the nicest guy--I'm sure every staffer he's glared at, rolled his eyes toward, and called a "f*cking amateur" while shoulder checking and not apologizing was just exaggerating the emotional abuse someone they might have admired threw their way--on various internet boards, forums, and social media sites about disparate events and conventions, preparing for a film they would have no way of knowing would be releasing in theaters for a Dragon Ball series that wouldn't air until 2015, just so that they could take down this perfectly upstanding fellow all because he happened to be a conservative(?) Christian in the anime industry and replace all his parts with an actress, writer, and director who has a much broader but very different vocal range. Am I getting the brass tacks of this monumentally stupid conspiracy theory correct?

I don't know about you, but Occam's razor would seem to suggest that a cheating, 56 year old man with a pattern of boundary and consent issues being a creep would be the most likely scenario.

Precisely. Looking at who's coming out and the lack of defenders in the industry, looking at the understandable explanations Rial et al never told their story publicly and knowing the years of talk among fans and among convention staffers across the country, a reasonable person must conclude that, at bare minimum, he is too toxic to employ and certainly too much of a risk to invite to another convention.

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I believe some of the theories not the people are absolutely stupid like believing the earth is flat.  i know its off topic but here are 2 videos that try to actually explain why people believe the theories.  Without sounding judgmental or laughing at the conspiracy people just makes a few silly jokes

the whole episode is pretty good and explains alot more so check it out if you wanna

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw9WLhpsoGkt

 

Edited by Something Clever

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Okay guys, popping back in here.  Again, need you to ratchet back the personal attacks — moderation actions will happen soon if you don’t.  And let’s also put a kibosh on dropping terms like “SJW” and quoting gamer gate folks. It doesn’t help.

so as Matt said above, keep it civil, so we don’t have to haul out ban hammers. 

i have known most of the people involved for years, at least casually. Not just Vic and Todd, but Jamie, Sami, Jessie and Monica. 

I don’t believe that they, or the others who have contacted me privately since this story broke, are making it up.  They’d have everything to lose and nothing to gain from faking anything, so just quit with that BS. There are literally hundreds of examples of similar narratives playing out through the entertainment industry this past year; it is naive to think anime would be immune. 

I wish I had heard directly from any of them prior to this. But once things went public, dominoes began to fall, and it’s the folks who have not been public and have contacted me that I find troubling.  I suspect others in the industry will fall as well. There are some creeps and pervs out there, and a reason why some folks never came to Otakon, or never came back. 

Yes, it sucks to watch your heroes fall, or to have to re-evaluate what you thought of people you thought you knew. But the wild conspiracy nonsense? You’ve got to be pretty desperate and delusional to buy into this, and the person above who laid it out above does so quite well.  

Funimation and Rooster Teeth are not about to drop a popular actor without a pretty solid case. Sami didn’t fake the swatting — but whoever did committed a crime.  

As for the rest, unless you’ve had your head in the sand for the past few years, you must have some sense that a very large percentage of women have dealt with inappropriate behavior like harassment or assault, and we know that it is significantly underreported on top of that.  For popular working actresses to come forward about a popular working actor? It’s not done lightly and carries massive risk. Retaliation, disbelief, fear of being seen as a troublemaker...or simply not wanting to dredge up unpleasant memories.

Either way, if there is a silver lining here, it’s that cons and industry are forced to take this more seriously.

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i dont try to be personal but man is it really really really hard not to make it personal  When i was personally asked to play bodyguard because my friends cosplay limited her visibility and movement and she refused to wear said cosplay unless she had protection because she was worried about her personal safety.

And thats just my personal experience so many more stories have probably gone untold because of this horseshit.  And more specifically if i ever have kids i want them to be able to have fun without literally putting them through a self defence course.


And then i see people actively and vocally and viciously saying that means nothing because i like this person and hate these types of people.  so i dont care about people suffering and will do everything in my power to make sure they will suffer again and again.  Because this person isnt on a 4k live stream holding his/her social security card and birth certificate while rubbing his or her junk on someone so therefore i dont believe.

Jesus pants shitting christ people it amazes me that so much of this is steeped in religious views, personal beliefs etc that are the extreme opposites of how those beliefs are supposed to be.
 

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16 hours ago, Something Clever said:

i dont try to be personal but man is it really really really hard not to make it personal  When i was personally asked to play bodyguard because my friends cosplay limited her visibility and movement and she refused to wear said cosplay unless she had protection because she was worried about her personal safety.

And thats just my personal experience so many more stories have probably gone untold because of this horseshit.  And more specifically if i ever have kids i want them to be able to have fun without literally putting them through a self defence course.


And then i see people actively and vocally and viciously saying that means nothing because i like this person and hate these types of people.  so i dont care about people suffering and will do everything in my power to make sure they will suffer again and again.  Because this person isnt on a 4k live stream holding his/her social security card and birth certificate while rubbing his or her junk on someone so therefore i dont believe.

Jesus pants shitting christ people it amazes me that so much of this is steeped in religious views, personal beliefs etc that are the extreme opposites of how those beliefs are supposed to be.
 

By "being personal", I meant in terms of attacking other people in this thread. That violates the rules of this forum.

Relating your personal experience, when it's directly relevant to the thread, is fine. Relating how this sort of news affects people you care about is also fine.  Just try to be civil with others here. Part of that involves NOT flinging around trigger words, and part of that involves not taking the bait when people do so.

As I said earlier, people don't want to believe the worst of people they admire, and that's just human nature.  Most people aren't just one thing; they're complicated and full of contradictions. Awful people can do some truly good things, and good people can do bad things. 

People who are talented are no less immune from bad behavior than others are.  Harvey Weinstein was an amazing producer who brought a lot of talented people to the public spotlight. Unfortunately, he was also a creep who abused his power over women.  It's fine to be skeptical of claims that appear to have little evidence, but that goes hand in hand with the possibility that evidence exists that you haven't been shown -- but has been shown to others in a position to do something about it.

Any rational observer should reach the conclusion that threatening women with death for daring to question the integrity of a person you do not personally know is a bit of a stretch.  That has actually, irrefutably, happened to people I know personally. The people doing it likely don't actually know Vic or any of the other people personally -- just the versions they show in public at conventions. Their only horse in the race is that their illusions about someone have been shattered, and they're angry about it. 

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