Otakon 2023 Covid policies.

[KyoKyo 39]

Does Otakon have any information yet on their covid policies for 2023?  According to the WEWCC website, they dropped vaccine mandates for indoor events in DC as of February 2022. I wanted to clarify the policies before I pre-registered.

Additionally, I have a few friends that have pre-registered and were wondering if the convention will provide refunds for registration if their vaccination status (rather lack thereof) prevents them from attending. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by KyoKyo

[MattTheMinion 0]

At this time we are sorting through our options and playing a little wait-and-see.
Our goal is that once we pick something we don't want to change it abruptly unless we absolutely have to.

I believe that like last year, if we announce that vaccines are required - those who are unvaccinated and purchased their badges before the announcement was made, will be eligible for a refund. 

[KyoKyo 39]

Great thanks. I'll be sure to pass the word along.

[Essier12 0]

Interesting information

Edited January 5 by Essier12

[F00LY 36]

Putting my vote in for no masks, yes vaccines.

Just got back from Katsu and despite their mask policy, like 20% or more of the con didn't wear it, no one seemed to care, and this was particularly true for Katsu staff, booths and tables in the dealers room and artists alley (and included the people at and around the Otakon table).

 

[KyoKyo 39]

On 2/20/2023 at 2:20 PM, F00LY said:

Putting my vote in for no masks, yes vaccines.

Just got back from Katsu and despite their mask policy, like 20% or more of the con didn't wear it, no one seemed to care, and this was particularly true for Katsu staff, booths and tables in the dealers room and artists alley (and included the people at and around the Otakon table).

With the COVID public health emergency ending in May, it seems like a moot point to mandate vaccines. The few places "mandating" masks aren't enforcing it and by this point if the 5th booster hasn't given any sort of meaningful immunity you have to wonder what the point is anymore.    Hopefully Otakon drops the vaccine mandate but only time will tell. 

Edited March 2 by KyoKyo

[darknessflamegeass 4]

Put back the vaccine requirement at least. Last year was overcrowded as hell, and the vaccines were the main thing preventing any outbreak. On top of that offer refunds and transfers. Do you want your reputation to go to crap after years of acclaim?

[WorldisYours 34]

I think vax yes, mask no was the way to go and I’m more than a little disappointed that Otakon landed on no for both. I think people underestimate how hard it is for these events to tell people they have to do things that virtually nowhere else in the United States is requiring (any sports fan can tell you that you’ve been able to pack arenas and stadiums with no mask or vax requirements for quite a long time now for instance), but I think requiring the vaccine at least would have been prudent given how long we’ll all be around each other. It’s also easier to enforce than masking, since it’s basically just approving or denying people at their point of entry- on the other hand. any masking requirement that isn’t going to be completely toothless requires constant vigilance from staff throughout the entire convention, and I doubt there is much appetite among anyone to still be playing “mask police” three years in. So vax yes, mask no is how I would have gone. Oh well.

[Attendee7000 8]

It's a tough decision, and one that was going to have to be made eventually. I'm glad it wasn't me that had to decide one way or the other because there wasn't any answer that wouldn't result in a lot of complaints.

 

I gave some thought about the vaccine requirement before replying, and came to the conclusion that it was probably the right call. I've had covid twice, and both times were about 3 months after getting a booster. So there will be thousands of members who can prove a vaccination, even if it was nearly two years ago. Not terribly useful in terms of transmission (although still much more helpful for keeping the symptoms in-check afterwards). So Otakon would have to devote a lot of manpower and resources to something that really isn't doing much in regards to transmission.

 

My unprofessional recommendation for anyone concerned would be to get a booster about 4-8 weeks out from the con (far enough out to build a response, not so far out that it wanes). I'll probably still bring a mask so that I have the option if I feel uncomfortable.

[windseeker 77]

On 2/20/2023 at 2:20 PM, F00LY said:

Putting my vote in for no masks, yes vaccines.

Just got back from Katsu and despite their mask policy, like 20% or more of the con didn't wear it, no one seemed to care, and this was particularly true for Katsu staff, booths and tables in the dealers room and artists alley (and included the people at and around the Otakon table).

 

It was mandated at MagFest just fine and most pople I saw were complying.

[windseeker 77]

They should keep the vaccine mandate at least. Clearly it didn't hurt attendance numbers at all.

[WorldisYours 34]

1 hour ago, windseeker said:

It was mandated at MagFest just fine and most pople I saw were complying.

I mean, technically when the post you replied to says “20%” of people at Katsucon were not wearing masks that means most of the people at Katsu were complying as well- 80% is definitely most. The problem with having a mask mandate in 2023 isn’t that most people don’t comply, because most people follow the rules in general.

The problem is that you have a significant minority who will not comply (whether they feel emboldened by the fact that masks are not required virtually anywhere else in the US or they’re just rule breakers in general) unless there is heavy enforcement, i.e. staff members walking around the convention telling them they have to put their masks on or face expulsion from the convention. Very few people still want to be doing that 3 years in- asking volunteers to be a vigilant mask police is a big ask at this point (keeping in mind too that even if “80%” are wearing them, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re wearing them properly- if they don’t wear them over their nose along with their mouth, which I’ve noticed a ton of people don’t do in places where they’ve been required over the past few years, they’re virtually useless).

So what you end up with a situation like at Katsucon or last year’s Anime Expo: the majority of people follow the masking rule but a significant minority do not, in large part because no one is willing to commit themselves to strong enforcement at this stage (the same thing happened where I live in NYC for months before they removed the public transit mask requirement, where most people wore them but anywhere from 20-40% did not because there was no enforcement). Maybe you say that’s ok because more people will still wear them if there’s an unenforced mandate than if there was no mandate at all. But it creates an added layer of tension at the convention- both with people complaining on social media that they’re seeing people flout the mask mandate, and perhaps even other attendees confronting the unmasked about them breaking the rules. That ultimately is why these mask mandates are so untenable at this stage.

 

Edited March 5 by WorldisYours

[KyoKyo 39]

 

 

On 3/4/2023 at 9:41 AM, Attendee7000 said:

I gave some thought about the vaccine requirement before replying, and came to the conclusion that it was probably the right call. I've had covid twice, and both times were about 3 months after getting a booster. So there will be thousands of members who can prove a vaccination, even if it was nearly two years ago. Not terribly useful in terms of transmission (although still much more helpful for keeping the symptoms in-check afterwards). So Otakon would have to devote a lot of manpower and resources to something that really isn't doing much in regards to transmission.

On 3/4/2023 at 3:20 AM, WorldisYours said:

but I think requiring the vaccine at least would have been prudent given how long we’ll all be around each other.

The vaccines do not stop transmission, infection or sickness or provide long term protection.  Like Attendee7000 said,  if someone was vaccinated 2 1/2 years ago and that was it, they would still *technically* be allowed to go to a vaccine mandated event even though any vaccine-induced protection has long since worn off. What sort of protection is that even offering?

What then would be the next step? Have Otakon mandate boosters? Then what timeframe do you use?  Nekocon 2022 did this and mandated that people be vaccinated no longer than a week or so before the con.  You would have some recently vaccinated people while others were vaccinated years ago possibly with no boosters.  It gets to be a logistical headache and if a place as restrictive as Washington DC has eased up on virtually all covid-related policies, I trust Otakon is making the correct decision.

The COVID health emergency is being lifted May 11th. I don't see the sense in pushing for any more vaccine mandates. 

 

[WorldisYours 34]

If you require vaccination then by definition you’re getting people who are more responsible and likely to keep up with their boosters. Yes, someone can technically show up with just their primary series from two years ago, but that doesn’t mean everyone would.

By the way, “the vaccine doesn’t prevent transmission” is a completely false anti-vax talking point. It literally does prevent transmission, it’s just not foolproof. But it’s certainly better than walking around unvaccinated (again, assuming people are keeping up with their boosters).

Ultimately I don’t feel super strongly about this either way, I’m still gonna go. I just would have preferred to see the vaccine requirement stick around for another year at least.

[Gaelstrom 0]

I wanted to post some information to ease peoples' concerns because I see some people talking about lack of injections being a risk in terms of reduced safety for people. 

It is necessary to point out that the injections did not and never have stopped transmission.  And in regards to reduction of transmission, studies conflict on if any reduction exists between people who have and have not been injected.  These studies also change with each strain, and while originally the Alpha and Delta variants may have had transmission reduced, recent strains the gap has effectively closed with Omicron and beyond as covid has reduced in lethality due to its evolution.  The current studies' conclusion is that transmission persists at a rate similar to those who have or have not taken it regardless of whether one person or both people did so, and regardless of any amount of boosters at this stage.

So this is not an issue with other people getting the injections, it is the choice of the individual if they wish to get it in order to have the potential reduction of symptoms should they get sick.  It is important for everyone to understand that other people getting it is not relevant to any protection provided by the injections for you individually.  The injections in all their form specifically reduced symptoms when already sick or getting sick from certain variants with the goal of reducing deaths related to the illness by the reduction of symptoms.  It's important to stop speaking about them as if they will prevent spread in crowds, and it is up to the individual to understand their body, talk to their doctor, and get the injections if you are immunocompromised and you feel it's in your best interest should you be concerned about getting sick.

So for those who are concerned, be aware that there is effectively no difference in the context of public interactions related to spreading of the virus between those whom have or have not received the injections.  Improving your immune system's own capabilities is a vastly superior approach regardless of whether you have or have not received an injection.  So the key is to take immune defense items as appropriate, and decide whether you feel your body needs the available injections by your own choice, and not to treat those whom haven't had it as 'less responsible' or 'anti-vax.'  That is an overly simplistic approach to those whom could not or would not to take it, since there are many health reasons people were advised not to take the injections.

tl;dr: Your choice if you take the injection and based on current available research it is irrelevant what others choose to do, since you have the afforded protection and therefore you have nothing to worry about in terms of others' injection status.

My goal here is to ease the 'black and white' thought process so people can feel more comfortable with each other, and wish everyone good health!

[WorldisYours 34]

Again, the idea that the unvaccinated and the vaccinated spread COVID-19 at the same rate is simply untrue. Here is a link to a study done during Omicron: https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20230103/COVID-booster-shots-cut-Omicron-transmission-in-closed-environments.aspx

The relevant passage: “In adjustment analyses, the Poisson regression model estimated that index cases vaccinated with ≥1 COVID-19 vaccine dose had, on average, a 22% lower risk of transmitting infection than unvaccinated index cases. Each additional dose further reduced the risk of transmission to close contact by an average of 11%.”

In addition, your bringing up of people who cannot take the vaccine for legitimate health reasons is completely irrelevant when discussing whether or not Otakon should have continued their vaccine mandate, because the vaccine mandate already provided an exception for those who can provide legitimate medical documentation showing they cannot take the vaccine.

[DeathJester 42]

On 3/4/2023 at 3:20 AM, WorldisYours said:

but I think requiring the vaccine at least would have been prudent given how long we’ll all be around each other. It’s also easier to enforce than masking, since it’s basically just approving or denying people at their point of entry- on the other hand. any masking requirement that isn’t going to be completely toothless requires constant vigilance from staff throughout the entire convention

Huge disagree on this statement.  The vaccine check is the toothless requirement at this point since you can flash a 15 cent cardstock printout from Staples and get your Covid bracelet for the whole weekend.  Masks on the other hand are very easy to visually inspect at all times.  Besides, after two years of requiring vaccines its not like the Otakon demographics are going to flip overnight and suddenly the repeat attendees are going to be outnumbered by first time anti-vaxxers.

[Gaelstrom 0]

 

4 hours ago, WorldisYours said:

Again, the idea that the unvaccinated and the vaccinated spread COVID-19 at the same rate is simply untrue. Here is a link to a study done during Omicron: https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20230103/COVID-booster-shots-cut-Omicron-transmission-in-closed-environments.aspx

The relevant passage: “In adjustment analyses, the Poisson regression model estimated that index cases vaccinated with ≥1 COVID-19 vaccine dose had, on average, a 22% lower risk of transmitting infection than unvaccinated index cases. Each additional dose further reduced the risk of transmission to close contact by an average of 11%.”

In addition, your bringing up of people who cannot take the vaccine for legitimate health reasons is completely irrelevant when discussing whether or not Otakon should have continued their vaccine mandate, because the vaccine mandate already provided an exception for those who can provide legitimate medical documentation showing they cannot take the vaccine.

I was focusing on general information in an effort to ease concerns, and the intention isn't to debate, just to comment that it's time we take a broader look. 

To your point though, I'll address the study in an effort to continue to reduce concerns. 

There are several issues with that study, however let's go bigger picture and let's presume the reduction in transmission per the numbers they provide are accurate, which are shown at 36% unvaccindated to 28% vaccinated.  Now it is unreasonable to expect a perfect study, however that also means that the study must also be analyzed for what it does not cover in context.

First, this is not a reasonable enough difference to mandate a treatment in any form.  Second, this was a controlled experiment with two inmates randomly paired, which does not apply to the repeated close proximity to 25,000 people, so this means an 8% difference with long term incarceration between two people cannot effectively be applied en masse.  Third, the percentage is effectively showing at most a 10% reduction in close proximity to limited people, and we'll even be generous and say if you immediately get a booster, it would potentially be 15% total difference at most per their model, which still won't prevent anything in that environment.  Fourth, there is currently no outbreak being reported. Fifth, look at the fact that the vast majority did not get covid in the first place within this model.

If a variant is in the convention center, you will get it regardless of what you do by this study's own acknowledgements, vaccinated, unvaccinated, doesn't matter.  These percentages are overly simplistic to be applied to thousands of contacts.  That is essentially something we all know, and is why things started opening when Omikron proved to essentially be a slightly worse flu for the vast majority of the population.  Because we reached a point it was a reasonable risk for the population because we know we'll get it.  And that brings the point back to 'taking the treatments becomes your choice to protect yourself with what we know now, and does not prevent transmission whether treated or untreated.'  If the virus is there you will get it almost with certainty with 3 days packed in rooms and halls with 25,000 people if a variant is present, but you'll essentially come down with the con funk like we did every year before this existed, it just has a more heinous name now that holds 2 years of stigma to it.  The variants are not the same and that must be acknowledged.  There are also literally dozens of available treatments now that do not have the risk of damaging side effects that have global studies proving their efficacy which further reduces the logic of a singular mandate.

I will not go into detail here, but I am also going to point out that we must also weigh the side effects of the treatments that are exponentially increasing, and are estimated many won't see for up to 5-10 years in terms of heart failure among many other issues.  So mandates are lacking crucial data due to limited study of the treatments that puts everyone's safety at risk in new and different ways that many of us have researched and determined are not worth the risk while viable alternatives exist.

Based on 1) the limited increase in reduction, 2) inability to provide prevention, 3) the model provided not adapting properly to the environment in which we will be in, 4) dangers inherent in the treatment that are still being discovered, and 5) no known outbreak that poses a direct threat, there is no good reason provided that mandating vaccines is necessary and simply alienates people who have valid reasons not to have taken them. 

I understand the concerns, but mandating is not what anyone needs anymore. 

[WorldisYours 34]

2 hours ago, DeathJester said:

Huge disagree on this statement.  The vaccine check is the toothless requirement at this point since you can flash a 15 cent cardstock printout from Staples and get your Covid bracelet for the whole weekend.  Masks on the other hand are very easy to visually inspect at all times.  Besides, after two years of requiring vaccines it’s not like the Otakon demographics are going to flip overnight and suddenly the repeat attendees are going to be outnumbered by first time anti-vaxxers.

I am not trying to be condescending here when I say this but: if you think it is “easy” to enforce mandatory masking of 40k people throughout an entire weekend, I really don’t even know what to say to that. Yes, you can visually tell if someone is wearing a mask or not. That still requires an awful lot of staff time and manpower to enforce to any real degree, especially again when many of the people who wear masks in a situation where they are “required” do so in a completely ineffectual way (go in to a doctor’s office or a hospital lately and count how many masks you see below the nose or even on the chin- it’s a lot).

What no one wants to admit when it comes to masking is it’s ultimately a voluntary compliance thing- it is very hard to enforce a masking requirement on people who do not want to do so. That’s why you end up with a situation like Katsucon where masks were “required” but everyone could see that there was no actual enforcement, so a sizable minority simply chose not to wear them. If your answer to that is that Otakon staff should simply enforce their masking rules, besides the practical reasons why that is difficult I do not think it is fair to ask a volunteer (read: unpaid) staff to take on this burden. I have many friends who work in retail and they pretty much universally celebrated the end of mask mandates, because it meant they no longer had to take on the extremely unpleasant business of constantly confronting people about whether or not they masked. And these were by and large not people who were personally against masking themselves! But it’s a tough ask for even low wage workers to play “mask police”, nevermind volunteer convention staff.

While I certainly see your point RE: fake vaccine cards, I can’t imagine that represents a significant portion of the population. But that aside, I’m really not sure how you would think though that constantly, vigilantly checking an entire attendee population throughout the course of the weekend to make sure they’re wearing a face mask (and again, wearing it properly!) is easier than simply checking a vaccine card as they first try to enter the convention. It just very self-evidently is not.

[DeathJester 42]

19 hours ago, WorldisYours said:

I am not trying to be condescending here when I say this but: if you think it is “easy” to enforce mandatory masking of 40k people throughout an entire weekend, I really don’t even know what to say to that. Yes, you can visually tell if someone is wearing a mask or not. That still requires an awful lot of staff time and manpower to enforce to any real degree, especially again when many of the people who wear masks in a situation where they are “required” do so in a completely ineffectual way (go in to a doctor’s office or a hospital lately and count how many masks you see below the nose or even on the chin- it’s a lot).

What no one wants to admit when it comes to masking is it’s ultimately a voluntary compliance thing- it is very hard to enforce a masking requirement on people who do not want to do so. That’s why you end up with a situation like Katsucon where masks were “required” but everyone could see that there was no actual enforcement, so a sizable minority simply chose not to wear them. If your answer to that is that Otakon staff should simply enforce their masking rules, besides the practical reasons why that is difficult I do not think it is fair to ask a volunteer (read: unpaid) staff to take on this burden. I have many friends who work in retail and they pretty much universally celebrated the end of mask mandates, because it meant they no longer had to take on the extremely unpleasant business of constantly confronting people about whether or not they masked. And these were by and large not people who were personally against masking themselves! But it’s a tough ask for even low wage workers to play “mask police”, nevermind volunteer convention staff.

While I certainly see your point RE: fake vaccine cards, I can’t imagine that represents a significant portion of the population. But that aside, I’m really not sure how you would think though that constantly, vigilantly checking an entire attendee population throughout the course of the weekend to make sure they’re wearing a face mask (and again, wearing it properly!) is easier than simply checking a vaccine card as they first try to enter the convention. It just very self-evidently is not.

Convention staff are already at checkpoints such as dealer's entrances / panel rooms / autograph areas checking for badges, wristbands, and the like.  I won't pretend that its not stressful to enforce because of attendee pushback, but we never complain about having to enforce badges throughout the convention center either.

 

Besides, by your own example you consider Katsucon a failure in enforcement but even you admit that it was a minority of attendees that disregarded the rules.  As an attendee, if I am concerned about health exposure I would rather see clearly when someone is breaking the rules (we can avoid the people not wearing masks) rather than have them break the rules I can't see (Did they have a valid vax card?  Did they come to the convention with a fever without testing for covid?)

[WorldisYours 34]

On 3/7/2023 at 10:12 PM, DeathJester said:

Convention staff are already at checkpoints such as dealer's entrances / panel rooms / autograph areas checking for badges, wristbands, and the like.  I won't pretend that its not stressful to enforce because of attendee pushback, but we never complain about having to enforce badges throughout the convention center either.

 

Besides, by your own example you consider Katsucon a failure in enforcement but even you admit that it was a minority of attendees that disregarded the rules.  As an attendee, if I am concerned about health exposure I would rather see clearly when someone is breaking the rules (we can avoid the people not wearing masks) rather than have them break the rules I can't see (Did they have a valid vax card?  Did they come to the convention with a fever without testing for covid?)

Let’s think about this rationally for a second. If I walk by a staff member entering a panel room or autograph session wearing my badge and the staff member checks it, I can’t suddenly not have a badge once I pass them. I either have a badge or I do not. On the other hand, I can be properly wearing a mask when a staff member looks at me walking into something and then not wearing one properly five seconds after I have been “inspected”. It’s just not the same thing.

Truly vigilant enforcement of masking that would actually make a difference would require people to be constantly monitoring each of these rooms while attendees just sit there, inspecting and reminding them to put their mask back on if they come off. This did not happen to any significant degree at Otakon 2022 (and it’s not like people didn’t take their masks off at times there either, just not nearly as much as they did at Katsucon).

Instead, attendees complied with the mask mandate because they voluntarily saw COVID as a threat at the time- there had been a huge spike in cases due to a new Omicron variant pretty much right before the convention. That’s the missing context here. People chose to overwhelmingly comply based on their perceived threat level of COVID. At Katsucon, they did not perceive a significant threat level (whether you or I agree or disagree with that assessment) so much less people masked, even though there was once again an on paper rule requiring masking. And then you get a ton of people complaining on social media that Katsucon’s masking rule is not being “enforced”, creating its own huge negative backlash, so it’s not like that doesn’t have a significant downside. Given the timing of Otakon’s announcement of 2023 COVID policies soon after Katsucon (where they had a table and would have seen all of this unfold), I would suspect this influenced their decision.

The vaccine cards, whether they can be forged or not, are much more similar to your metaphor of checking for badges when entering certain points of the convention. I either have a vaccine card or I don’t- I can’t remove it five seconds after it’s been checked. I maintain my position that masking policies have become increasingly untenable and unenforceable as people’s personal attitudes have shifted, but keeping the vaccine requirement for at least the first year you dropped the mask requirement would have been the smart and prudent thing to do.

[windseeker 77]

On 3/6/2023 at 10:51 AM, KyoKyo said:

 

 

The vaccines do not stop transmission, infection or sickness or provide long term protection. 

 

That is a load of BS.

[Daniel Perales 91]

I'm going to wear my mask if I have to.

 

[Zeeba Neighba 20]

11 hours ago, Daniel Perales said:

I'm going to wear my mask if I have to.

 

As will I.

[Golddess 0]

On 3/5/2023 at 1:37 PM, windseeker said:

They should keep the vaccine mandate at least. Clearly it didn't hurt attendance numbers at all.

So first, on my honor, I did follow Otakon's Covid policy.

But the only reason I went last year was to find out first hand how exploitable that policy was.  I decided to test the negative test exception to the vaccination requirement.  So I got the test done at CVS, printed out the results at home on a standard 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper, and there was no checking that my test result was legitimate.  I could have just taken an earlier test result, fudged the dates on it, and showed that.  Or even taken someone else's test results and slapped my name on it.

Now, I certainly agree that based on the information available to us, it is reasonable to assume that the 2022 policy did not hurt attendance numbers, and I don't fault anyone for taking that position.  Nor am I trying to change anyone's mind on the matter.  I'm just saying that I personally would not take that position without knowing how many people begrudgingly accepted the policy in 2022 but would not for 2023.

[Nate A.M. 1]

I think this conversation would be significantly more productive if everyone would clarify whether they mean:

>against infection
>against symptoms
>against hospitalization
>against death

-when talking about what Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines protect against. It would also help to cite what values – either in percentage or odds ratio – you guys consider an appropriate definition of "protection" in the context of talking about an anime con.

Like, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say KyoKyo meant "protection the initial series (two doses) provides against infection two years later" and windseeker meant "protection against infection any RNA vaccine provided relative to the dominant variant at two weeks after administration, and against hospitalization and death thereafter," since that's what public health people tend to mean. KyoKyo is wrong because the initial series of the RNA vaccines do in fact provide meaningful (70~80%) protection against hospitalization versus BA.2 which appears durable for the foreseeable future, but right that its protection against symptoms is likely worse than 10% (but tbf not nothing).[1] If your goal is only to prevent infection, then I'd think long and hard about what that means.

(goals that do not fall under "stop infection" might include preventing liability, making people feel safe, stopping people from yelling at you on twitter, filtering boneheads while lying about it, and satisfying industry partners)

I should note, there are other reasons why the initial series of COVID-19 vaccine prevents transmission on a societal level without necessarily providing a ton of protection against transmission on a personal level. I doubt anyone here doubts that (it's pretty firmly in "just look at the graph dumbass" territory now), but I did just write a post asking everyone to clarify themselves.

So what should Otakon actually do?

idk lol I didn't mean to get this far into it. People aren't reporting cases as much anymore, but correlating with wastewater monitoring, it sure seems like the line's pointed the right way. That said, I can attest that a significant minority of Otakon's veteran presenters are still so stark adamant about vaccination and masking that not pissing them off in particular might be a reasonable thing to weigh – I'll pass on any actual data. As for myself, even without a mandate, I'll almost certainly be wearing a mask in the halls at a minimum. Those are the highest risk areas, and it's a pretty painless intervention since I spend most of my time in panels anyway. Realistically I'll be wearing a mask most places anyway just to make my friends feel comfortable, but that's kinda beside the point. On a purely personal level, I wouldn't care about vaccination requirements since unless you require a recent bivalent/updated monovalent booster, the difference between protection against infection afforded by the vaccination rate of the population as a whole versus guaranteeing those last few percent are vaccinated is – and this just is a gut check, not real math – basically nothing.

I dunno, Otakon probably has a matrix of all this stuff. I would if I were them.

1. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.03.13.22272308v1.full-text //note that BA.2 may not be the dominant variant anymore, but it's what I had on hand, and it shouldn't matter.

Edited April 2 by Nate A.M.

[KyoKyo 39]

On 3/15/2023 at 6:36 PM, windseeker said:

That is a load of BS.

Expand

[Nate A.M. 1]

10 hours ago, KyoKyo said:

Expand

It might be a good idea if you expand a bit too so that windseeker doesn't misunderstand you again, because I think you misspoke a bit. For instance,

>The vaccines do not stop transmission, infection or sickness

Which vaccines, how many doses, against which variants, and how long after administration? In my post, I assumed you meant the initial two-dose series of either RNA vaccine against BA.1~5 around two years later. It might seem weird to you that you'd need to clarify because,

>What then would be the next step? Have Otakon mandate boosters?

-implies that you think boosters do in fact provide protection against those things, unless you were only accepting the premise to make the point, but that's not actually what you said. What you said was essentially "the vaccines don't work," and I can see why a less charitable reader might just stop thinking carefully about the rest of your post.

>or provide long term protection

Long term protection against what? Am I right that you meant to say something more like "the vaccines do not provide long term protection against infection, transmission, or sickness?" Not to keep on reiterating my own post, but it's well established that protection against severe illness/hospitalization/death is very robust over time, so I assume you don't mean "the two dose series of initial RNA vaccines eventually stop doing anything at all."

Edited April 6 by Nate A.M.

[Daniel Perales 91]

I don't know if this even matters ,but I attended the "New York International Auto Show" at the Jacob Javis Center in NYC last week. They didn't have much of a COVID policy. There were no proof of vaccination required but they did encouraged people to wear masks (which very few people did).

I haven't heard of any "outbreaks" so far.

 

[Kurishi 9]

I would say no to masks, however, if people who attend wish to wear them, they should be able to and vice versa. That I dont have an issue with. Or perhaps in more crowded p not so open places like the dealer's room, or a huge panel where people have to sit next to each other in a small space if they feel comfortable, perhaps wear masks then? But, in all honesty even if COVID is a thing still, its not as drastic as it was a couple of years back and honestly I feel it should be a choice whether someone decides to wear a mask or not.